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View Diary: Arizona Utility Wants To Kill Solar (67 comments)

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  •  I'm opposed to Poorer Ratepayers having.. (0+ / 0-)

    ..to pay rates higher than they otherwise would, just to ensure that solar is acceptably affordable.

    Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. www.hamiltonproject.org

    by PatriciaVa on Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 07:58:56 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  And how, pray tell, does that happen? Fewer new (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jabney, Calamity Jean, highacidity

      plants, lower rates for the "poor."

      You're opposed to that?

      "I'll not yield. -- Wendy Davis" "Fear is a habit. I am not afraid. -- Aung San Suu Kyi"

      by sturunner on Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 08:03:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Poorer NonSolar Households pick up the tab of the. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        VClib, pngai

        ..affluent solar panel households.

        http://www.calwatchdog.com/...

        That’s the unintended consequence of a state diktat that PG&E, SoCal Ed and SDG&E purchase atoms from home solar generators at the same price they resell them to non-solar customers. That makes it impossible to cover their fixed costs.

        Akbar Jazayeri, vice president of regulatory operations for SoCal Ed, explained the dilemma facing California utilities to Bloomberg News. “You get into a situation,” he said, “where you have a transmission and distribution system with nobody paying for it.”

        And the situation of which Jazayeri spoke will get progressively worse as the state government proffers financial incentives to those that install solar panels on their roofs.
        - See more at: http://www.calwatchdog.com/...

        .............

        Stanford University economist Frank Wolak, an expert on California’s electricity market, told the Times that consumer electricity bills could rise as much as 50 percent by the time Buffet and his fellow solar prospectors are generating megawatts.
        - See more at: http://www.calwatchdog.com/...

        Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. www.hamiltonproject.org

        by PatriciaVa on Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 08:12:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Can you cite anything that doesn't come from a (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jabney, Calamity Jean, highacidity

          right-wing website?

          Ya' know, something that does't reveal your economic & political cluelessness?  

          "I'll not yield. -- Wendy Davis" "Fear is a habit. I am not afraid. -- Aung San Suu Kyi"

          by sturunner on Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 08:27:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  stu - regardless of where the material (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            PatriciaVa

            is published it's a real issue and we can look to Europe where there is more distributed power to see the impact on utilities and all power customers. Unless you are completely off the grid there is a large fixed cost to provide you with on demand, stable 24/7/365 power when you want it, even if you don't use it very often. However, in Europe and the US nearly everyone uses the utility power at night or on cloudy or rainy days.

            "let's talk about that"

            by VClib on Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 08:37:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Right. The devil is in the details. Obviously, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              highacidity

              in resort areas with  heavy seasonal use, the better off pay more per unit because of high fixed connection charges, as it should be.

              I, of course, don't object to that.  Each situation is different.

              Solar can reduce long-term capital investments in the grid, & if the for-profit sector can't manage it, there are alternatives.

              "I'll not yield. -- Wendy Davis" "Fear is a habit. I am not afraid. -- Aung San Suu Kyi"

              by sturunner on Fri Jul 12, 2013 at 09:04:25 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  So change the formula where a unit sold by a solar (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          semiot, Calamity Jean

          customer to the power company is the same amount as a unit sold by the power company to a solar home when their demand is not met by the solar unit.  $50 to $100 a month for an added fee is more than the monthly electric bill most smaller homes, condos, and apartments receive in the milder winter months.  So solar homes would be paying more towards grid maintenance in those months than the "less affluent" homes would pay for their electricity and grid maintenance share.

        •  PatriciaVa - The gist of what these guys are (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          semiot

          saying is this: Utilities have fixed costs. The price that they charge for electricity includes their fixed costs.
             They don't want to buy from distributed solar users, but if they do, they want to pay some low wholesale, not retail rate.
              But, IMHO (as an economist) is that solar power is a pass through. They buy at a retail rate and sell at a retail rate.
              The fixed costs of the utility aren't relevant to the transaction.
               If grid tied solar were to become prevalent, utilities would have some financial problems. But that would be because their generating structure is designed to operate at a larger scale, not because somebody is subsidizing somebody else.
             

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