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View Diary: Don't come to Florida, there's 1,090,017 more potential George Zimmermans walking around (183 comments)

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  •  BOYCOTT! (11+ / 0-)

    Until Florida repeals SYG and tightens up gun ownership laws, fu(k Florida. Y'all screwed up.
    Tourist season is over for this year but people need to be reminded of this from now right through next winter. Hit Florida where it hurts: the Tourism/Conference trade.
    When Anita Bryant went on a homophobic rampage, decades ago, we boycotted Florida Orange Juice, effectively. Took me years to go back to Florida citrus after that. Looks like I'll be searching out non-Florida OJ again.

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 04:58:23 AM PDT

    •  Yep, I agree, Boycott FLA (9+ / 0-)

      I wonder if the many Convention Centers in the state advertise the fact that we are turning into an armed encampment...

      Life on two wheels is life in balance

      by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:03:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Zimmerman case (8+ / 0-)

      had nothing to do with SYG.  Zimmerman's actions as the jury understood them were valid self defense actions in any of the 50 states.  This because according to the case as described by the prosecutor Zimmerman had no option to escape as he was being pinned by Martin.

      Please do not allow the repeated media narrative to distort the facts of the case and the law which impacts it.

      •  True to the extent the case has gone so far (0+ / 0-)

        In the event of civil litigation though, the SYG laws could still come into play.  As I understand it, GZ can request a SYG hearing and though he will be compelled to testify at it, if he succeeds and convinces the court, then the SYG ruling would grant him immunity from civil suits.  I think.

        Life on two wheels is life in balance

        by YaNevaNo on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:45:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  SYG emboldened Zimmerman to act as he did (11+ / 0-)

        knowing that he could fall back on "self-defence" if he ever got caught. SYG creates an atmosphere that promotes bullies and endangers everyone else.

        If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

        by CwV on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:45:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You make this bold comment without (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PavePusher

          having any way of proving it and there is no way you could know what Zimmerman was thinking.

          In addition I disagree with your conclusion regarding SYG as there have been no long term studies to support your assertion.

          You seem to want to peddle your opinion as fact.

      •  Without SYG, the crime scene would have been (10+ / 0-)

        treated like a crime scene and Zimmerman would have been under arrest for the killing of Martin as soon as the cops got there.

        He would have still been free to try to make bail, and he could have tried to advance a self defense argument at trial.  But from the jump, this homicide would have been treated as a crime.

        Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

        by JesseCW on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 07:26:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  People continue to be (9+ / 0-)

          immensely myopic about how crucial it was that Sanford police did nothing at the scene of the crime. This ruined the case for the prosecution. By their own admission, the reason why Sanford PD did nothing was because of SYG.

        •  that's not entirely true... (5+ / 0-)

          We went over three local use-of-force incidents in my concealed carry class.  Two of the three went home on the night of the incident.  One was arrested but later released without charges being filed.  The two who went home were called to testify by the Grand Jury, which ultimately no-billed (e.g., refused to indict) their cases.

          This is in the blue state of New York.  Two of the incidents happened at home, one out in the public space.  The public space one was one of the two that got to go home on the night of the incident.

          Whether or not you're arrested at the scene depends on many factors.  The totality of the evidence on-hand, the reputation of the actors involved, the confidence the police/DA have in being able to locate you if they let you leave, injuries you may have sustained, etc.

          A good concealed carry instructor will prepare you for the possibility of arrest, and instruct you as to what to say ("I was afraid for my life, I'd like to speak with my attorney now."), as well as what not to say (anything else!), but it's not a given that you'll be arrested on scene, SYG or no SYG.

          There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap box, ballot box, jury box and ammo box. Use in that order.

          by Crookshanks on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:49:37 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  A "good" instructor will advise you not to be (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            YaNevaNo, greengemini, freerad

            a paranoid freak who enjoys putting others in danger, and suggest that you grow up and lose the dirty harry fantasies that are motivating you to go lurking around in public clutching a pistol under your jacket.

            NOT

            A good concealed carry instructor will prepare you for the possibility of arrest, and instruct you as to what to say ("I was afraid for my life, I'd like to speak with my attorney now.")
            coach you on getting away with throwing away lives.

            Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

            by JesseCW on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 10:11:55 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Your attributing serious mental health (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              PavePusher

              issues to a fellow poster which is against site rules.  It is also rude and childish and speaks of you lacking anything substantial to say.

              •  There's no diagnosis there. Just a flatly (0+ / 0-)

                honest statement about how grotesquely irresponsible it is skulk around clutching a loaded pistol in public.

                Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

                by JesseCW on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 11:22:59 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Citation to your claim, please. n/t (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Crookshanks

                  Your hate-mail will be graded.

                  by PavePusher on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 11:52:16 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  You are stating a personal belief. (0+ / 0-)

                  Not an honest statement.

                  An honest statement would be one which identified those who legally carry as less likely to commit serious crime than both the average citizen and the average police officer.

                  That is a statement of fact backed by evidence of two peer-reviewed research papers.

                  Your statement is not and it is filled with prejudiced language "grotesquely irresponsible",  "skulk", and "clutching" are all loaded words.

                  The more you engage in such dishonest tactics and representation the more I shall call you on it and expose them for what they are and the less credibility you will have in future conversations.

            •  Distortion, much? (0+ / 0-)

              Your hate-mail will be graded.

              by PavePusher on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 11:51:48 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  I don't believe that is the case (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PavePusher

          nor do I believe that much if any evidence could have been collected since it was outdoors and raining.

          There would be scuffle marks at the scene as well as quickly diluting blood at the body.  That evidence wouldn't help in anyway because the body was present - they don't need to establish someone was dead because they know someone was.  What other forensic evidence could lead credence to either claim and additionally what such evidence would be preserved in that environment?

          I think people assume far too much capability of forensic sciences and the ability to utilize existing capability by the average department.

      •  You are wrong. (0+ / 0-)
        had nothing to do with SYG.
        I just caught a snippet of a TV show interviewing one of the jurors. Paraphrased: "Zimmerman had a right to stand his ground."
    •  Disney, Hyatt, Universal Studios - they can (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      YaNevaNo, greengemini, ichibon, splashy, myboo

      get whatever the fuck they want out of that state legislature.

      You don't have to boycott all Florida products (I know the citrus growers directly backed Bryant, different), just pick somewhere else for you vacations and encourage all friends and loved ones to do the same.

      If Disney can get our copyright laws extended over and over and over on a national level, you can damn sure bet they can get insanely permissive concealed carry laws and warped "license to kill" laws overturned in one State.

      Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

      by JesseCW on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 07:25:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Better make sure of your travel plans: (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greengemini, CarlosJ

      Your hate-mail will be graded.

      by PavePusher on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 09:14:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What, you mean there are NO states ... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PavePusher, KVoimakas

        without gun owners carrying concealed weapons lawfully?  Ack!  TIME TO PANIC!!!!

        /s

        "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

        by Neuroptimalian on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 10:44:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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