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View Diary: Hate the Law Not the Verdict (21 comments)

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  •  I appreciate the f'd up status of Florida law (3+ / 0-)
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    Lorikeet, fou, a2nite

    But the analogy you gave does not include any provision for the whole world knowing full well what started your interest in me standing in the park.  

    If I'm standing in the park and you call 911 to report me for being suspicious (and have a long history of making such complaints invariably against other people of my race) and then commence to follow or somehow keep track of me... and this is all public record, then you are responsible for initiating the encounter which ended in my needless death.  Especially when the police have requested that I not follow you... even if that was not a lawful order.    At some point I have the right to stand my ground as well.

    I think the prosecution made a very weak case, failed to pound home several very pertinent points.  How does Zimmerman get his gun from behind his back when he's on the ground being ground and pounded, and how did Martin see the gun in that position?   The prosecution made the briefest mention of this crucial defense claim in the closing arguments.  

    I am the neo-con nightmare, I am a liberal with the facts.

    by bhfrik on Sun Jul 14, 2013 at 01:13:42 PM PDT

    •  correction (0+ / 0-)

      Zimmerman called the non emergency line... but the overall gist remains.

      I am the neo-con nightmare, I am a liberal with the facts.

      by bhfrik on Sun Jul 14, 2013 at 01:18:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Right on poor prosecution (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bhfrik, bevenro

      But the jury can only deliberate on the evidence presented to it. The prosecution did not meet their burden of proof in part because of the facts and in part because they did a poor job of presenting them. That's part of why I spent quite a bit of time on the representation question.

      The other point here is that Martin would have been justified in "standing his ground" as well. If he'd somehow grabbed Zimmerman's hand, turned the gun back on him and fired it, he would be not guilty through an affirmative self-defense case as well. Or should be. We all know that the jury might have decided it differently in that case.

      I do agree Zimmerman is RESPONSIBLE here for initiating this whole chain of events. But under the law, that can be true and he can still be not guilty of the two charges considered.

      "What is essential is invisible to the eye." www.thefoxfoot.com

      by greywolfe359 on Sun Jul 14, 2013 at 01:21:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  This is not the law either in Florida or (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NWTerriD, Wee Mama, denise b, VClib
      If I'm standing in the park and you call 911 to report me for being suspicious (and have a long history of making such complaints invariably against other people of my race) and then commence to follow or somehow keep track of me... and this is all public record, then you are responsible for initiating the encounter which ended in my needless death.  Especially when the police have requested that I not follow you... even if that was not a lawful order.    At some point I have the right to stand my ground as well.
      in any state in this country.  See my comment above where I link to Florida laws, and a case that discusses this.   If you follow someone in a public place, and even walk up to them and say something, you have not done anything legally wrong.  (Whether it's stupid, or morally wrong, is a separate issue).  The prosecution's witness, Serino, testified at the trial that legally there was nothing wrong with following someone in a public place.  And that is the law in every state.  

      What you are not allowed to do is be the first one to use actual force or threaten actual force -- you cannot follow someone, walk up to them, AND THEN point a gun at them (a threat of actual force) or punch them or tackle them or even grab them and hold them.  If you do any of THOSE things, the person who you used force on has a right to respond with similar force.  That's basically the law in every state in the country.  

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