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View Diary: Reid Open to vote on 20-week abortion ban (32 comments)

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  •  Voting a 20 week ban (4+ / 0-)

    God, I hope this doesn't happen. We could get a lot of unpleasant surprise democratic defections. Most otherwise pro-choice people tend to see late term abortion bans as "reasonable". That's why Rs push them. Most people view the moral value of a gamete/embryo/fetus as increasing through the pregnancy. Unless they have been close to a catastrophic obstetrical situation, which most people haven't, they assume that women seeking later term abortions just irresponsibly dawdled. I am in the process of writing a diary to counter this notion, but it is a pretty deep belief. Many otherwise pro-choice people also do not "get" why parental consent laws are bad, but that's for a later diary.

    •  Where would pro-choice people (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      grover

      defect to from the Democrats?

      •  if they want to restrict abortion.... (4+ / 0-)

        if they want to build a fence to keep out "illegals", if they want eternal war, if they want to weaken social security, etc. then they aren't Democrats EVEN IF they use the label.

        Much like we say if Medicare became a voucher program called Medicare it would NOT be Medicare (because the name doesn't define it, it's the substance that defines it), if the Democrats go against so many things they supposedly are for, then they are NOT Democrats.

        So, to answer your question, at some point (choose your own breaking point) those who believe in the ideals of the Democratic Party, as put forth in the 2008 Party Platform, will have to regroup somewhere else.

        But that's a long way off.

        Dear NSA: I am only joking.

        by Shahryar on Sun Jul 14, 2013 at 06:02:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I was talking in terms of the next election. n/t (0+ / 0-)
          •  ok, theoretically... (0+ / 0-)

            let's look at 1968 as an example. Gene McCarthy and then Bobby Kennedy ran as a different type of Democrat than Lyndon Johnson or Hubert Humphrey.

            I think if Kennedy had wanted to start a new party he could have. There would now have to be someone of that stature. I don't think that person exists. Hillary Clinton won't be starting a new party. At this time there's no one who would be able to bring enough people to a new party. Elizabeth Warren, Jeff Merkley, Bernie Sanders...that's not going to get it done.

            So I think "nowhere" is the answer to your question.

            Dear NSA: I am only joking.

            by Shahryar on Sun Jul 14, 2013 at 06:27:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  George McGovern (0+ / 0-)

              attempted to take the Democratic party in a radically different direction in the next election and he was abandoned by organized labor and the rest of the old guard and went down to the worst defeat in history.

              Nowhere sounds right to me, so the threats by pro-choice, gays, blacks are simply hollow expressions of frustration. Being in that group, I've made them myself but it doesn't mean much. California has now rigged the ballot so that I no longer have third parties to vote for as a token gesture.

      •  Pro choice (0+ / 0-)

        Dem legislators could vote with Rs on this and feel that their pro choice constituents would be ok with it.

        •  They'd be wrong. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Calamity Jean

          Dem senators tend to take a lot for granted, including the fact that their urban voters are incredibly loyal and motivated.

          Many of us aren't thrilled with our senators. We just like the Republicans less. Choice is one of those issues where there tends to be sunlight in between the Dems and Republicans.

          Remove that and we'll take our check books and ground games and find ourselves candidates we actually like.

          It's not like pro-life Fundies are suddenly going to embrace Dems who vote anti-choice once. They'll be wandering the desert.

          Integrity of body is a civil rights issue. Civil rights. It affects men and women of every race and people of every age (think grandmothers want their granddaughters living through what they did?)

          Dems think that pro choice constituents back home will just accept an anti choice vote?

          We'll flood their phones and offices to let them know we won't. And if they do, we find people who actually believe in civil rights for all.

          © grover


          So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

          by grover on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 12:13:58 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Choice is my line in the sand. (0+ / 0-)

        I can bend a lot. I can be flexible.

        But if you want to see me -- and a lot of very nice reasonable ladies (and quite of few men) -- go absolutely apeshit, the Dems should just try voting against choice.

        This party will splinter like an old cedar on a rocky ridge top  in a lightening storm.

        © grover


        So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

        by grover on Sun Jul 14, 2013 at 11:54:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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