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View Diary: Zimmerman Juror's Racism (107 comments)

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  •  Really a Conviction in a Case Police Didn't Even (6+ / 0-)

    want to bring was always a long shot. The whole exercise looked like going through the motions.

    And given the circumstances and the law, there was a high burden of proof on the prosecution.

    No one aspect of it can be identified as a main reason Zimmerman walks.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 05:39:36 PM PDT

    •  I find y our argument delusional (6+ / 0-)

      in the context of current history and the country's history, especially in places like Sanford.

      In fact, I was anticipating this sort of reaction, and its why included the town's history with racism.

      •  No, you know what the problem is? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Avila

        We already have way too many people in prison as it is.  Accuseds DO need to be protected from the State because they have all the power and the money.

        What I wish is that every accused, no matter their color, no matter the color of the victim, got a defense like this.

        We may all feel we know what happened, but if you look at pure evidence, the case didn't hold.

        And that's how it should be.  Regardless of what you feel about either the victim or accused.  

        Shame is that is not what happens with many of people accused of a crime.  They are usually intimidated into  a plea bargain, even if they are completely innocent.

        No Justice Department is ever about justice.  They are about convictions.  And too many are steam-rolled by that.

      •  Oh and don't forget (3+ / 0-)

        in this case, the defendant was also a person of color.

        •  For those who are unclear why ou are a part of (8+ / 0-)

          racism

          The Juror in question just stated on national TV that she believed the force by Zimmerman was excessive

          For those of you who don't understand if she thought the force exessive, she should not have acquitted

          That means- she engaged in jury nullifcation.

          •  Believed it probably, or believed it definitely? (5+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Nada Lemming, TomP, Avila, shaharazade, VClib

            If it's the latter, I'll agree with you that she did not comply with her oath.

            •  I am going by second hand account (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Avila

              The reality is that is we won't know now, because I expected she will be told by her husband and others to change it probable

              However, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence at this point that you are ignoring by focusing on the word probable as to her fitness to be a juror in this case

              She also stated, for example, that the reason she believed the victim started it was because the defendant's flash light was on the ground, and the only way that could have happened if I am phrasing this right is because the victim hit the defendant first.

            •  in other words, there is no (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Avila

              logical way, based on the evidence she described, she could have come to this conclusion

          •  Which is her problem (0+ / 0-)

            and I don't deny that she may be - or is more than likely racist.

            That doesn't mean the defendant was white.  Which is my only position.

            Why do you seek to hold me responsible for the statement of a juror, I have no idea.

            Why do you?

            Why do you think my objection to calling Zimmerman white when anyone can see he clearly is not, is any support for any side in this case, I have no idea.  

            Perhaps because you think saying someone is non-white means in your eyes they are innocent.  Not so in my eyes.

            I said weeks ago that I thought he should be convicted if all the facts could come out.  I have known a ton of these condo commandos.  I expressed doubt that all the facts would come out.  And I was right.  I also expressed that given the facts as they came out during the trial meant a conviction was unlikely.  

            If she felt the force was excessive, she should have voted to convict in my opinion.  Honestly, she should.

            What this means is maybe as a racist, she found a brown person less objectionable than a black person - and I do know that is what happens - but that still does not make Zimmerman white.

            Why do you want him to be white, and why do you think saying he is not white means a person is racist?

        •  He's part hispanic, so he's only (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bruh1, shaharazade

          a person of color if he identifies as such.

          And what the fuck does that even have to do with anything?  You know there are hispanics who hate black people, and vise versa, right?

          I'm so fucking tired of these bullshit arguments: Oh, Zimmerman couldn't have been racist, because he wasn't white!  Oh, Zimmerman couldn't be racist because he had black friends!

          You know who makes those excuses?  RACISTS!

      •  Hopefully the Argument More than the Logic Behind (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wu ming, Cassandra Waites, a2nite

        it.

        Everything that's problematic about it has influence from racism. The diary though is about a juror's racism and whether it's one or all of their racism, there are still a heap of other difficulties with getting a conviction in this case even if you change the jury.

        And that's what was bouncing around the space inside my skull, picking on mainly the jury or mainly the prosecution etc. as though it were the straw that broke the back.

        We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

        by Gooserock on Mon Jul 15, 2013 at 06:55:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Read the other diary on what she says (5+ / 0-)

          she says she thought the force excessive by the defendant

          There's no logic behind it

          She ignored the law and didn't want to convict

          •  And I would agree that if (0+ / 0-)

            she thought the force was excessive, and yet she still voted to acquit, that is very wrong.

            Because the whole self-defense case rests on what a reasonable person would do under such circumstances and if they reasonably thought their life was in danger or if they were in danger of bodily harm.

            I have had my head slammed into a wall by an ex-husband, and I was scared shitless.  And yet, I had no cuts at all, and I ended up fine.

            If this juror thought the force was excessive, I do not see how she followed instructions but did not uphold to convict.

            And yet, that still has nothing to do with Zimmerman's race.

        •  I think that the point (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Cassandra Waites, bruh1, shaharazade

          is not that this one juror was the problem, but rather one glaring example of many of the racism that permeates the entire situation.

          •  Yes, as I stated a previous diary, the racism (7+ / 0-)

            started on the night that the police first started to investigate

            They didn't follow normal procedures, continued with the prosecutors, was found in the ruling of the judge (everyone keeps saying she was great, but she  let a lot of shit go that she shouldn't have just to appear 'reasonable" when in fac t her rulings were absurd), and finally with the jury, which it seems engaged in nullification.

            There was never any chance for justice in this case.

    •  I have never met a prosecutor (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greengemini

      that didn't view a highly public trial as an opportunity.

      But the truth is the prosecution wasn't very good.  Nor was the police work.

      Still, according to one diary the first vote was 3 not guilty, 2 manslaughter 1 guilty of murder 2 - so this was reasonably close.  

      This was always going to be a tough case - just as the Casey Anthony case was.  In neither does one walk away terribly impressed with the legal talent in the central Florida bar.

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