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View Diary: The filibuster is dead. Long live the filibuster. (182 comments)

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  •  Until the next Republican administration who will (12+ / 0-)

    dismantle them again.  This is a small compromised victory, nothing to howl about.

    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

    by accumbens on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 09:27:20 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  I wasn't "howling" at all (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      fumie, NYFM

      My comment says "at least we get..." which is trying to find SOME positive aspect in this frustrating result.

      "It ain't right, Atticus," said Jem. "No, son, it ain't right." --Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird

      by SottoVoce on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 09:30:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry - didn't mean to imply you were howling (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Randomfactor, cyberburl

        I just don't see this a very much to be pleased with as the diarist implies.

        The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. Bertrand Russell

        by accumbens on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 09:33:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Really, I don't think Jed sounds particularly (4+ / 0-)

          pleased, either.  Rather more cautious, and trying to parse how this will be positive in the short term.  For example:

          In one sense, that means nothing has changed—the filibuster is still every bit as intact as it was before the confrontation began.
          I think, beyond the restarting of the two agencies, it does educate wishy-washy Dems to understand that they have power if they take it.  The GOP would not have folded had they not been certain that the Dems meant what they said.  Let them keep that strength alive for when they need it (which won't be long, I'm pretty sure).

          "It ain't right, Atticus," said Jem. "No, son, it ain't right." --Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird

          by SottoVoce on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 09:41:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Has the feel of (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            barkworsethanbite, Dave925

            a parent telling their teen "Either you start using your cell phone responsibly, or I'm taking it away. It's up to you."

            Which isn't what most of us had hoped for, but if it works at least for a little while it's better than nothing. Plus if (okay, when, who are we kidding?) they go back to abusing it, they've made their decision very clear: they're not responsible enough to have have it.

            On the whole, I prefer not to be lectured on patriotism by those who keep offshore maildrops in order to avoid paying their taxes. - Molly Ivins

            by Lashe on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 09:53:33 AM PDT

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            •  If it works. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Remillard, bdop4

              They've promised not to use it before. They just promised again.
              I'm not Pollyanna enough to buy it this time either. I don't care if they pinky swear or cross their hearts and hope to die.
              They lied last time. Why should we believe they weren't lying this time?

              Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but a means by which we arrive at that goal. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

              by Gentle Giant on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 10:38:51 AM PDT

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    •  The Republicans won this. (20+ / 0-)

      Instead of filibustering 100 times what used to be filibustered in the past, they can continue to filibuster 90 times, and the Dems will roll over.

      They've successfully delayed ending the filibuster until they get control of the Senate.  The filibuster is dead, it's just that the Dems are going to let the Republicans kill it when circumstances best fit the Republican needs.

      •  It is absolutely dead, (7+ / 0-)

        just not yet.  McConnell will kill it the very first chance he will get.  Let's work to make sure he doesn't get that chance in 2015.

        "Don't bring that horse in here!" -- Cassandra

        by tc59 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 09:45:03 AM PDT

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      •  This is such absolute horse crap (16+ / 0-)

        The Republicans absolutely caved.  Unambiguously caved.  Reid threatened to go "nuclear" if they did not do what he wanted, and they did what he wanted.  

        Why did we "lose"?  Because two specific individuals won't get their NLRB nominations re-upped?  Labor gets to pick the two new nominees and they get confirmed by the end of THIS MONTH, per the WaPo's Plum Line blog.  FYI, there are a lot of really good labor-friendly lawyers who will do just fine.  It was a face-saving measure for the Republicans, pure and simple.  They still lose.  Remember, they were expressly saying they would never nominate ANYONE to either the CPB or the NLRB because they did not want those agencies to function.

        Reid did not agree to take the nuclear option off the table for the rest of this Senate session.  He expressly refused to do so.  This "deal" was fabricated by John McCain behind McConnell's back.   And it happened because it's clear that we have 51 votes to change the rules if the Republicans continue to refuse the filibuster.

        The DC circuit nominations will ultimately be telling.  I have a hard time seeing how the Republicans will be able to get away with blocking the nominations simply because they think the DC Circuit already has enough judges.  It's little different from the current situation, and if the Republicans do start filibustering all three, the nuclear option will be a lever to use yet again.

        •  "continue to abuse the filibuster" (0+ / 0-)

          typos...

        •  Far from me to appeal to authority (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          virginislandsguy

          But the fearless leader himself kinda agrees...

          The filibuster is dead. Long live the filibuster. http://t.co/D2ZciFl8PB. Except really, it's kinda dead

          — Markos Moulitsas (@markos) July 16, 2013 ">Markos's tweet
        •  But they've made very similar agreements (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Remillard, enhydra lutris

          in the past, and it didn't do squat. This is just the Republicans saying "sorry, we were really bad, and won't do that again... promise!"...

          And they'll just keep doing it. Nothing has changed.  

          Freedom isn't free. So quit whining and pay your taxes.

          by walk2live on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 10:42:06 AM PDT

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        •  If the new nominations for the NLRB (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PhilJD, JerryNA, Mokurai

          go through by the break that starts August 5th, that will be in record time, unprecedented.
          The GOP will still go through the motions of vetting the new nominees. That will probably not be finished by August 5th and the process can then be started over after Congress comes back into session and delayed even longer.
          It's like bringing home a large, juicy ham and then discovering it's all bone with only a thin covering of meat around it. It looks like a winner, but there might not be a lot of benefit from it.
          It remains to be seen. In the meantime, I'll refrain from celebrating.

          Peace is not merely a distant goal that we seek, but a means by which we arrive at that goal. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

          by Gentle Giant on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 10:44:39 AM PDT

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        •  Proof's in the pudding. Reid is free to bring ALL (5+ / 0-)

          outstanding nominations--including, as you note, the crucial DC Circuit Court vacancies--to the Senate floor for an expeditious up or down vote.

          If the Thugs permit cloture on all of them, I'll believe the cards may finally have been redealt.

          When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

          by PhilJD on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 10:50:03 AM PDT

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          •  Why in the goddamned name of all that is fucking (0+ / 0-)

            holy and righteous hasn't he already done that?

            Harry Reid had his chance to show spine a long time ago.  What Republicans wanted was ANY concession, and for nominees NOT TO BE CONFIRMED YET.  That's what they got.

            They want delay, because every moment that Democratic appointees don't spend in office is another day that they and their friends have to further drive the system into the ground for fun and profit.  And Reid is completely ok with that status quo.

        •  This is NONSENSE! (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          pollwatcher, wordwraith

          Reid capitulated as always. NOTHING has changed. Republicans can still continue to abuse the filibuster and they will -- right up till the day when they control the Senate -- and THEN they will IMMEDIATELY eliminate it totally. And LAUGH at all the stupid pathetic wimpy Democrats whining "what about the comity and traditions of the Senate":

          Only Democrats care such crap. Republicans care about winning. And winning for them isn't about a couple of nominees to a federal agency that will have little power to change anything without Congressional support.

          NO -- they simply made the most of a losing hand. Democrats could eliminate the filibuster at any time and move their legislation, but they DON'T WANT TO!

          Republicans want to keep as much of their power to block everything Obama wants to do intact. So, they gave up the least amount they could while keeping all their power to blockade everything for the future!

          THEY WON! All they are doing is running out the clock on the Obama Presidency -- FOR 8 YEARS!

          And if Paul Ryan or Jeb Bush, or Ted Cruz wins the next election, then the filibuster will disappear day 1. And suddenly the Senate will go from being a "do nothing" body to INSTANT action! Right wing wish-lists will whizz through Congress without slowing down at all.

          And Reid will look in retrospect like the UTTER LOSER AND PATHETIC WEAKLING he really is, because the GOP would NEVER tolerate for five seconds any obstruction of their agenda AT ALL!

          •  Look how the Repugs handled Texas. (0+ / 0-)

            After being surprised that the Dems would actually put up a fight, they came back and shoved their BS legislation down the throat of the public.  They'll do exactly the same thing if they control of the Senate and presidency.

          •  Republicans won't tolerate for 5 seconds? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            virginislandsguy

            That must be why GW Bush was able to push privatization of Social Security through Congress so easily.

            And would not tolerate any delay in judicial appointments, a number of which were filibustered by Democrats. (I'll grant not as many as Obama, but this is part of an escalating war)

            And don't blame Reid. He is as strong as his caucus. He either bluffed or proved that he had a majority behind him, and Republicans caved. It's all about who has the votes. That's all.

        •  over 400 Repub filibusters is a success for Dems? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          CriticallyDamped
          The filibuster's use has exploded to an unprecedented degree: Lyndon Johnson, he noted, had to overcome a single filibuster in his six years as majority leader; Reid, in the same amount of time, has faced more than 400.
          So now we're going to get 8 or 9 nominees that won't get filibustered and we should declare a victory?

          If this is winning, I'd really hate to see what losing looks like.

          •  We won a skirmish (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DarthMeow504

            Now we can return to the battle. We should be happy over the bits we won, and resolute over the rest. Nobody has proposed that we lay down arms.

            Early in the Civil War Major General Benjamin Butler rejected claims from Confederate slaveowners that he should return their slaves under the Fugitive Slave Act. He replied that he took them at their word that the slaves were their property, and confiscated them as contraband of war. Abolitionists were in part delighted, but at the same time furious that the slaves were not freed. That took until the Emancipation Proclamation and the Thirteenth Amendment, which had to be followed by the Fourteenth and Fifteenth Amendments and a century of struggle to get to the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts, which are still being litigated.

            The war will not be over until the Republicans have gone the way of the Federalists, winning here and there in the states but absolutely nothing national. Polling and Nate Silver's projections indicate that it will happen within a decade.

            After the Federalists we got the corporate laissez-faire Free Trade Whigs, of course. And when the Republicans are gone we can expect the corporations to try to buy the Centrist Democrats and split the Democratic Party. But how will that work when the polls show that the population is increasingly Progressive? I would be delighted to have a public debate between the Democratic and Progressive agendas, with the Religious Right and the Tea Parties relegated to "noises offstage".

            Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

            by Mokurai on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 01:52:51 PM PDT

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        •  I actually wonder how significant it is (0+ / 0-)

          that the deal was made without McConnell, too.  Should this be seen as something of a "fuck you" to him?

        •  No guarantee that new nominees even get (0+ / 0-)

          cloture, let alone confirmation, sorry.

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          That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

          by enhydra lutris on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 03:23:18 PM PDT

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      •  Statistics? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        NYFM

        Does anybody know, by comparison how much of Bush's nominees were being held up like this VS Obama's?????

        It SEEMS to me like a lot less. I remember Bolton, but is there any website that has the info?

      •  They did not 'Win' anything (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aspe4

        they were forced to stop doing what they have been doing.  Will they do it again?  Probably as long as they can until they are stopped again.  Jed's point is well taken, the victory is small, but it is a victory and the powder is dry for another time, should that (when it) be necessary to use the threat again.

        This should remind folks how critical the next election will be for the comp. of the senate.  D's better figure out how to turn the growing disenchantment with Congress into a wholesale indictment of R's policy on the socio-economic well being of the nation.

        Finding Fred A Memoir of Discovery @ smashwords.com/iTunes

        by Timothy L Smith on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 10:13:55 AM PDT

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        •  Disenchantment with Republicans in the states (0+ / 0-)

          We should be able to mobilize all of the intended victims of voter suppression and all of the victims in the War on Women, along with all of the intended victims in the Immigration battles, from now and for as long as the memory lasts, like New Deal and Civil Rights Democrats.

          Whereas their idea of the Big Tent is, "You can come in as long as you stand over there and don't try to interfere, and shut up except when we tell you to cheer."

          Ceterem censeo, gerrymandra delenda est

          by Mokurai on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 02:05:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Reprise (0+ / 0-)

      . . . in Hillary's first term.

    •  well isn't that how democracy is supposed to work? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      virginislandsguy

      It is a time honored tradition whenever the Republicans take over that they get to put business-friendly nominees on the NLRB and change all the rules to disfavor unions. And when we get a Democratic administration, they get to put a Democratic majority on the NLRB and change all the rules back to favor unions. That is the way labor law has been conducted for more than half a century.

      What was new was that the Republicans were questioning the right of the majority to govern as they always have. Now the right of the majority to govern has been restored to some extent. That is something to celebrate.

      And it is completely beside the point to complain about Republican policies. If you don't like those, you have to defeat Republican candidates at election time.

    •  Yeah, well, (0+ / 0-)

      unless the GOP starts changing their tune on issues like choice and minority rights, it may be a while till the next Republican administration.

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