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View Diary: Why Isn't NRA Arguing Trayvon Martin Tragedy Could Have Been Averted if Only He Had a Gun? (271 comments)

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  •  Yeah, because no one has ever shot . . . (17+ / 0-)

    a young black man unless that young black man first attacked him, right?

    You're entitled to believe Zimmerman's version of events.  (I will refrain from exploring why you might be inclined to do so.)  But since you weren't there that night, and since the only evidence that Martin initiated the confrontation was Zimmerman's self-serving testimony, you should realize that you're simply making an assumption about what happened.  That assumption may not be accurate.

    And of course, like most of Zimmerman's all-white defenders here, you ignore the fact that the confrontation occurred only because Zimmerman chose to pursue Martin and then get out of his car to hunt him down.  Had Zimmerman simply heeded the dispatcher's admonition, none of this would have happened.

    "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

    by FogCityJohn on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 12:00:27 PM PDT

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    •  Re (0+ / 0-)
      You're entitled to believe Zimmerman's version of events.  (I will refrain from exploring why you might be inclined to do so.)
      Because the forensics are consistent with his testimony. Why do you believe the prosecution's version?
      And of course, like most of Zimmerman's all-white defenders here, you ignore the fact that the confrontation occurred only because Zimmerman chose to pursue Martin and then get out of his car to hunt him down
      Which isn't illegal. But assaulting someone is.

      (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
      Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

      by Sparhawk on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 01:07:59 PM PDT

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      •  Specifically which forensics are consistent (7+ / 0-)

        with Zimmerman's "testimony"?  

        And what version of Zimmerman's several accounts do you consider to be testimony? The "re-enactment" video? The Hannity interview?

      •  I guess I'm not surprised . . . (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JayBat, nuclear winter solstice

        that you'd find a way to blame Trayvon Martin for this.  You manage to ignore the fact that Zimmerman got out of his car armed with a gun and went looking for the kid.  What do you think a guy with a gun plans to do when he goes out to chase down an unarmed minor?  Why do you think he didn't listen to the police dispatcher or heed his Neighborhood Watch training but instead chose to pursue Martin?  Given those undisputed facts, who do you think was looking for a confrontation?  Was it Martin, who had been trying to elude Zimmerman, or was it Zimmerman, who went after Martin with a deadly weapon?

        And of course you'll now assure me that racism has nothing to do with how you view this case.  Nothing at all.

        "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

        by FogCityJohn on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 04:14:53 PM PDT

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        •  Re (0+ / 0-)
          What do you think a guy with a gun plans to do when he goes out to chase down an unarmed minor?
          The same thing armed police officers do every time they chase down unarmed minors every minute of every day. Other people who take your position accuse Zimmerman of being a "wannabe cop". Does it make sense that he might want to "investigate" a suspicious person without shooting them?

          Fortunately, we don't need psychoanalysis here. We can just look at the simple fact that other than being shot, Martin was uninjured, while Zimmerman had comparatively extensive injuries. That's certainly enough for reasonable doubt, and (in my view and others' views) implies that Trayvon attacked first. Airtight? No. But the ones who need "airtight" are the prosecution.

          And of course you'll now assure me that racism has nothing to do with how you view this case.  Nothing at all.
          I certainly do not think you're accusing me of being a racist here. Such an accusation is a serious thing and I suspect that you are too wise to insinuate it.

          So I will simply take your statement at face value and say, no, racism has nothing to do with my views on this case. While race issues might be of peripheral interest here, mainly because of the uproar about the case, I don't think there is a genuine issue of race here and certainly not with the verdict or specific facts of the case. On such flimsy and contradictory "evidence", a Zimmerman conviction would have been a travesty of justice.

          (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
          Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

          by Sparhawk on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:17:01 PM PDT

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          •  Oh no, no, no (0+ / 0-)
            I certainly do not think you're accusing me of being a racist here. Such an accusation is a serious thing and I suspect that you are too wise to insinuate it.
            I'd certainly never, ever accuse you of racism.  As you say, such an accusation is a terribly serious thing.  Indeed, as we know, accusing someone of being a racist is a far, far, far worse crime than actual racism itself.  

            And no, of course there was no genuine issue of race here.  Just as I'm sure there was no genuine issue of race in the killings of any of these young black men.  These things just happen, you know?  

            Anyway, thanks so much for the reminder that we live in a post-racial society.  It's so refreshing!

            "Ça c'est une chanson que j'aurais vraiment aimé ne pas avoir écrite." -- Barbara

            by FogCityJohn on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 09:54:19 PM PDT

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            •  Straw man alert (0+ / 0-)

              Just because I don't see any serious issues of race in the substance of this case does not imply that I don't think race could be an issue in other cases.

              I don't paint with a broad brush most of the time; I go case by case. It is entirely possible for America to be "post racial" in general and still have a racist incident, just like it is possible for America to be extremely racist in general and yet for this incident not to have a significant race component despite the races of those involved.

              (-5.50,-6.67): Left Libertarian
              Leadership doesn't mean taking a straw poll and then just throwing up your hands. -Jyrinx

              by Sparhawk on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 04:10:48 AM PDT

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          •  a real neighborhood watchman says "I'm the (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            StrayCat

            neighborhood watchman, who are you?"

            Zimmerman said he did NOT, and he said he didn't know why. But I think he does know, because a friendly introduction would have meant he'd have to let go and head back to his original choice of Target.

            Zimmerman was not a deputy and Martin was not a criminal suspect.

            We are all pupils in the eyes of God.

            by nuclear winter solstice on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 06:21:25 AM PDT

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