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View Diary: The Zimmerman Case: My take (Like it or not) (159 comments)

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  •  People have made up their minds, on both sides of (8+ / 0-)

    this tragedy.  No amount of evidence, facts, or rational guessing/questioning is going to change anyone's mind.  All these diaries do is feed into one sides beliefs and feed into one sides anger.  Unless, magically, a video emerges showing exactly what happened no one will change their beliefs.  And if the video didn't show what one side wanted, they would dismiss it as fake.  It's a waste of time (me included) to keep doing this to ourselves.  Better to start listening to why the African American community is so upset with the justice system.  Better to start listening to why some are so upset with our gun laws.  Better to start figuring out what we can do as Americans to bridge these huge gaps.  It's time to stop saying, "Look how smart I am and how dumb you are for believing what you do".

    •  Yeah (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mannie, terrybuck, Tonedevil

      This diarist has posted several diaries here, so I was willing to give him a chance. But the fact that he is refusing to even engage in conversation tells me what type of person he is. He just decided to throw his middle finger up at people who are genuinely hurting right now and move on. Getting tired of white people who do that, and the fact that it happens here is outrageous.

      Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

      by moviemeister76 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 03:49:02 PM PDT

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      •  Really... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Neuroptimalian

        I was out with clients up until I just got back. Is that not acceptable to you? Here I am now for a minute, but I can't spend my evening online here.

        And, by the way, you're the one making a racial issue out of this by saying you're "tired of white people" blah blah blah.

        I am truly sorry that you are hurting over this. I can certainly understand it. It's the kind of case that can easily divide people.

        But if you look at the cold hard facts, this wasn't a racial issue, this case. If you cannot, that says more about you than me.Nor do I make any reference to it as such. To me, this is an issue of self-defense and mistakes by both parties. That's ALL it is when it comes down to a juries decision. They are not created to follow an agenda or decide based on raw emotions.

        "It doesn't matter whether you win or lose. It's how you ladle the gravy." - Felix Ungar

        by Verbalpaintball on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 04:18:42 PM PDT

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        •  Nope (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Tonedevil

          I apologize for thinking you had dropped and left. I do understand how life can get in the way.

          But I absolutely reject your "colorblind" remarks. This was all about race. Trayvon would not have even been followed if he had been white. The juror clearly profiled Trayvon as well. The lawyers on both sides talked in very obvious dog whistle language. Just because you choose to not see race, which is a privilege by the way, does not mean it is absent.

          Plus, do not even think I and others don't recognize how you are implying that only white people (like you) are objective in this case, but people of color are not because of "raw emotions." That is a very old trick. As a white woman, I have personally experienced it many times from men who try and accuse me of being "emotional."

          And if you truly cared that people were hurting over this, you wouldn't have used the title you did. You deliberately bated people who are hurting. That is very low of you.

          Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

          by moviemeister76 on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 05:28:27 PM PDT

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          •  Oh, for God's sake (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Neuroptimalian

            It must be nice to personally believe that your take on people's intentions and inference is always right.

            As far as referring to raw emotions, there are people of ALL CREEDS AND COLORS feeling raw emotions about this case. How dare you assume that my statement is cloaked language. You know nothing about me but assume you do.

            I sense more racism in your post than you will ever find on my four years of posts - but, you know what? There's no talking to someone who is so convinced that every utterance from someone who isn't exactly like you MUST be littered with racism and disrespect.

            Hate to tell you - I grew up in a very mixed neighborhood. Went to temple university, another very diverse school. Spent most of my life in diverse company with diverse friends and family whom I love - so much so that your suggestion about my intentions are insulting.

            Something tells me, however, that you will continue to feel  that you are right no matter what. This is not an issue of race. It's an issue of an egotistic personality.

            "It doesn't matter whether you win or lose. It's how you ladle the gravy." - Felix Ungar

            by Verbalpaintball on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 06:10:32 PM PDT

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    •  Wise thinking, and excellent advice: (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      terrybuck, Tonedevil, taffers
      Better to start listening to why the African American community is so upset with the justice system.  Better to start listening to why some are so upset with our gun laws.  Better to start figuring out what we can do as Americans to bridge these huge gaps.
      And might sound familiar, as noted in this comment:
    •  taffers - I agree people should stop writing (5+ / 0-)

      diaries that attempt to retry the case on this blog.

      The thing that puzzles me is that so many people think this was an easy case. It was a very complex case. Even the prosecution, post the verdict, admitted that they had no clear opinion of what happened that tragic night and knew from the beginning this was going to be a very difficult case to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

      "let's talk about that"

      by VClib on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 04:11:58 PM PDT

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      •  I agree. Listening to the juror who has spoken (0+ / 0-)

        been very interesting.  She seems to have bought Zimmerman's story (the defenses story) completely.  And I see multiple reasons.  She doesn't seem to understand or relate to African Americans based on some of her statements.  I don't necessary see that as racist, but as simple ignorance (by the strict definition of the word).  It did sound as though the jury truly wanted to find Zimmerman guilty of something, however.  It sounds like they understood how stupid Zimmerman's actions were leading up to the fight, but as she said, stupid isn't illegal.  Listening to the lawyers on TV, the main disagreement with the prosecution, is how they failed to really tell Trayvon's side.  How they failed to even give the jury an idea of the type of person Trayvon was.  They never made it possible to relate to Trayvon as a person, with hopes and dreams and a future.  The juror kept coming back to the instructions and how, based on those, they didn't feel they had beyond reasonable doubt, to convict.  Again, lawyers were complaining that the prosecution never gave the jurors a roadmap to get to a conviction, while the defense laid out exactly how they would get to a not guilty verdict.  This is what seemed to lead to the outcome more than anything else.

        As an aside and off topic, if the prosecution team says one more time how devoted they are to the right to carry firearms I'm going to flip.  These are supposed protectors of law and order.  I would think they, more than anyone, would have seen the dangers of a bunch of armed people walking around.  Ugghhhh--don't they see that the very laws they are so in favor of, is the direct result of Trayvon's death?  Honestly, I thought the prosecution team was terrible, and the more they talk, the more convinced I am that I am correct.

         

        •  taffers - the prosecution was restricted (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pi Li

          from having witnesses who would talk about Trayvon's life, hopes and dreams. If the prosecution had people testify about Trayvon it would have allowed the defense to parade an unlimited number of character witnesses for Zimmerman and also directly attack Trayvon's character.

          "let's talk about that"

          by VClib on Tue Jul 16, 2013 at 11:08:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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