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View Diary: Devils Advocate: Trayvon v. George (129 comments)

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  •  I can't say anything for certain. (0+ / 0-)

    The diary was deleted, possibly because whoever wrote was accused of being a troll.  I don't know who wrote the diary or at all what was being responded too.

    See how this works?  In lacking sufficient evidence to determine that he is in fact a troll, therefore I have to say "not guilty."  My integrity demands it of me.

    "There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. - James Morrow

    by kirrix on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 12:22:17 AM PDT

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    •  Nothing ever really disappears on the (3+ / 0-)

      intertoobz--Google the title: Motor Voter: Help Me Understand
      Click the arrow and then cache. voila. Nothing is deleted for real.
      Didn't seem like the diarist showed much integrity in the comments in their deleted diary.
      My integrity demands I call bullshit on you and the diarist.

      k. thanx. bye.

      It's your victories that give you your confidence but it's your setbacks that give you your character. -Van Jones

      by Oke on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 12:39:04 AM PDT

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      •  I wasn't trolling then either (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Victor Ward

        But I got accused of it and insulted to the level of abuse. That was the 3rd time it happened so I thought well maybe you just have to be that way here. So yeah I responded pretty ugly to the people who came at me.

        But honestly, I was simply trying to voice an opinion and get some reasoned feedback from people. Does that make me a troll? Perhaps I don't understand this web site.

        I haven't posted many diaries here. And when I say something like, well, a negative analysis of Sarah Palin - I get lots of recs and hoo-rahs. But if I say "help me out here... whats wrong with this idea" and that idea happens to be an unfavored opinion here, I get this shit-storm.

        Dunno, maybe I just have to do it long enough that folks know who I am. I've been a member here a long time but don't post often.

        But troll? If trying to have a conversation makes me a troll then I am.

        Integrity? Don't go there. Its not warranted - even with that motor voter post. If you read it again and realize I was sincere in writing it, you should agree that the responses I got were undeserved and out of proportion.

        •  In all fairness, you did call undocumented (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Villanova Rhodes

          immigrants "illegal aliens", which is generally frowned upon not just for the phrase illegal, which you were already informed of, but also for the phrase "aliens", which, while technically a correct usage of the word, also has certain implications that said undocumented immigrants are part of the "other".

          You posted a diary in which you said you used to be a Reagan supporter, and then asked a question that was essentially a right-wing talking point, with no basis in reality.  

          I'm not necessarily saying I think you're a troll, but I can certainly understand why some may have thought that.

      •  Yep. Out of here, too - no need to feed this one. (4+ / 0-)

        Others may stay and play if they wish to feed the troll.

      •  Didn't know about the cache feature before, thanks (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        True North, happy camper

        Found it, thank you for the help locating it.  I still don't see evidence of trolling.  What I do see is someone whose political perspective is continuing to evolve and despite the insults flung at him from members of our community, seem to be growing in the right, by which I mean "left," direction.

        His insults were poor reactions to insults immediately before his were posted, a forgivable sin as far as I'm concerned.  Passions were inflamed as they always are when someone makes a challenge to a held worldview.

        The earlier commenters on his diary did their best to explain their position in good faith, and he took the points made and responded with his own concerns.  That sort of substantive debate is what strengthens the theories and ideologies we subscribe to and ultimately strengthen the movement as a whole, because it is not trolling.  It is the wisest of questions to ask: "what does all this mean to you?"

        "There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. - James Morrow

        by kirrix on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 12:59:17 AM PDT

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        •  Thanks (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Victor Ward, True North

          I'm a little surprised at the reactions. On the wingnut site I'm considered the ultra leftie Obot and they're nicer to me than this place lol.

          You'd think people would at least try a rational response before judging that I'm just a troll. Leaves me wondering what they mean by the term.

          •  My theory is that as lefties, we suppress our (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            violent urges in the real world and unleash them on the internet.

            The right wing revels in their real world violent urges, and  thus most of them get the worst of it out of the system by the time they hit the web.  Of course, that's just a hypothesis.  I don't have any hard data to back it up...

            "There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. - James Morrow

            by kirrix on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 01:29:40 AM PDT

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            •  It's interesting to see someone who has posted (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Villanova Rhodes

              so few comments on this site over three years describe leftists as people who have violent urges that must be redirected into irrationally hostile comments on the Internet in order to keep the peace.

              Thanks for your concern, comrade. I think Fox News may have a position for you as commentator who can offer the leftist perspective on the issues of the day.

              •  You know what a joke is, right? (0+ / 0-)

                Because that is exactly what that comment was.

                In all seriousness, everyone has violent urges at some point, and those urges get vented in a multitude of ways.  I prefer video game myself, but others go off on people on web forums.  There are others who take martial arts classes or visit the gun ranges.  All of these are for the most part healthy ways of dealing with rage and urges to violence.  There are also people who instead embrace that violent urge and physically attack others.  This is not healthy and should be discourage and prevented.

                "There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. - James Morrow

                by kirrix on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 10:32:07 AM PDT

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          •  Maybe... (4+ / 0-)

   should understand some people are in genuine pain right now, and you coming in here "just asking questions" after NOTHING can be done about it is like digging the knife in deeper. This case was argued over for weeks just before and during the trial. You're telling me, in all that time, you never read any of those diaries which went over everything in detail? NOW you have questions?

            Time is of no account with great thoughts, which are as fresh to-day as when they first passed through their authors' minds ages ago. - Samuel Smiles

            by moviemeister76 on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 07:40:35 AM PDT

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          •  Keep in mind (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            that this site sees a huge number of trolls and wingnut provocateurs, trying to get people to make stupid comments that they can take out of context and represent as being the official position of all Democrats because they read it on "The Daily Kos".

            As someone who also espouses some unpopular opinions here, my advice is don't engage with those who slam you without cause, and keep asking questions.

            "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

            by happy camper on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 09:25:26 AM PDT

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      •  That's a good point. Here a direct link to (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Oke, WakeUpNeo, Villanova Rhodes

        the Google cache for that diary in case anyone wants to see it.

        In my view the diarist comes off as a concern troll who flipped out when people started challenging him with perfectly valid questions.

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