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View Diary: A Man With A Gun Just Wants To Ask You Some Questions (26 comments)

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  •  Were you on a Neighbourhood Watch Patrol? (5+ / 0-)

    We would stop asking question after the first word.

    If the person encountered asked us something, then we would reply and if the person was lost, we would try to help, or we would ask the person to stay put, pull back and call for assistance.

    We are not the law in the Neighbourhood Watch Patrol. We should not interrogate. We should not really initiate discussions other than how nice a yard is, what a good looking bike the person is riding or the weather.

    Our job is to play mind games with potential drug sellers, prostitutes and house burglars, but not face-to-face. That last bit is very important.

    We are there to be PRESENT without being OPPRESSIVE. We let the police who are the real law enforcement do any pursuing, confronting or questioning. Neither we nor the police are there to be oppresive.

    ;o)

    --UB.

    "Daddy, every time a bell rings, a Randian Libertaria­n picks up his Pan Am tickets for the Libertaria­n Paradise of West Dakota!"

    by unclebucky on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 12:07:34 PM PDT

    •  P.D. Postdatum (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Wee Mama, Dodgerdog1, Dirtandiron, chimene

      Oh, and we would never be out there without permission from dispatch/cops/Chief of Police, singly, without explicit identification (Blah blah Neighbourhood Watch - P A T R O L), without cell phones, and, of course, with any kind of weapon.

      We would never do such alone, not on patrol, and not with identification.

      We would always take cues from dispatch, bike cops and cops in squads. We would never unilaterally do anything.

      --UB.

      "Daddy, every time a bell rings, a Randian Libertaria­n picks up his Pan Am tickets for the Libertaria­n Paradise of West Dakota!"

      by unclebucky on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 12:12:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Uh, we maybe have a language problem. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        tgrshark13
        Neither we nor the police are there to be oppresive.
        Rousting people is oppressive.

        Support Small Business: Shop Kos Katalogue

         w6 92D 4@?DEC2:?65 @FC 76=@H r:E:K6?D E2<6? r2AE:G6 @? E96 9:89 $62D E@ 362C pC>D 282:?DE E96:C r@F?ECJ[ E@ 364@>6 E96 6I64FE:@?6CD @7 E96:C 7C:6?5D 2?5 qC6E9C6?[ @C E@ 72= E96>D6=G6D 3J E96:C w2?5D]

        That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

        by enhydra lutris on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 01:43:51 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          enhydra lutris

          "Daddy, every time a bell rings, a Randian Libertaria­n picks up his Pan Am tickets for the Libertaria­n Paradise of West Dakota!"

          by unclebucky on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 02:55:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  If I ignore you or shine you on, is that the end (0+ / 0-)

            of it, or is there a likelihood tht John Law shown up to harass my sorry ass for walking, joggins, cycling or otherwise existing?

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            $62D E@ 362C pC>D 282:?DE E96:C r@F?ECJ[ E@ 364@>6 E96 6I64FE:@?6CD @7 E96:C 7C:6?5D 2?5 qC6E9C6?[ @C E@ 72== E96>D6=G6D 3J E96:C w2?5D]
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            That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

            by enhydra lutris on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 06:15:40 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I should HR you. But I won't... n/t (0+ / 0-)

              "Daddy, every time a bell rings, a Randian Libertaria­n picks up his Pan Am tickets for the Libertaria­n Paradise of West Dakota!"

              by unclebucky on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 08:54:30 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  So, no answer? Or does that mean yes? Why (0+ / 0-)

                HR when you could simply reply yes or no - I haven't been abusive or  anything.

                That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

                by enhydra lutris on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 08:56:53 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  That's the distinction. (0+ / 0-)

                  You can be abusive WITHOUT violating the rules.

                  You won't talk WITH me. You talk AT me.

                  That to me is HRable. But I will just say it rather than clicking it, since so many people here get ants in their pants about that.

                  I won't answer you until you talk WITH me. Settle down.

                  Ugh. --UB.

                  "Daddy, every time a bell rings, a Randian Libertaria­n picks up his Pan Am tickets for the Libertaria­n Paradise of West Dakota!"

                  by unclebucky on Thu Jul 18, 2013 at 07:16:58 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Look, you brought up the cops, remember? So (0+ / 0-)

                    why? To me the implication is that if I ignore you, shine you on, crack wise or otherwise don't play ball, then you call the cops on me, otherwise why bring them up. So, I was trying to confirm that.

                    That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

                    by enhydra lutris on Thu Jul 18, 2013 at 11:18:36 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Nope, not at all. I just don't like rude posters.. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      enhydra lutris

                      And if someone gets nasty rude with me, I up the ante.

                      But I don't really want to. Just why did you post all that nonsense, and not simply talk WITH me? You know?

                      Did you presume that perhaps I would not talk WITH you? That would have been wrong.

                      But some points. I am not a Zimmerman supporter. I don't know what to say about Trayvon, but it seems to me that he either verbally objected to Zimmerman ganging up on him, or he physically defended himself, that is, he "stood his ground" against Zimmerman, if indeed that's what happened. That doesn't make him wrong, of course, it made him the victim of a guy who thought through his gun instead of through the law. I don't know if that helps.

                      Then in regard to "the cops". Neither "the cops" nor any neighbourhood watch patrol member is there or should be there to oppress anyone. If they are, they need to be prosecuted, fired and "marked" in the community.

                      And in regard to your original reply, if you have had negative experiences with the police, that of course is not a good thing. But I can't talk with you if you go off on me, y'know?

                      Anyway, that's it. This is not an easy thing, the "Trayvon Martin" case. But, just like other similar cases, it's gut-wrenching.

                      Thx.

                      --UB.

                      "Daddy, every time a bell rings, a Randian Libertaria­n picks up his Pan Am tickets for the Libertaria­n Paradise of West Dakota!"

                      by unclebucky on Sat Jul 20, 2013 at 02:36:10 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

    •  And if they didn't? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tobendaro, tgrshark13
      or we would ask the person to stay put
      You walk up to me and start asking anything other than directions or the time & I keep walking. If you try to detain me, that is an arrest, a citizen's arrest, in this case, and a false arrest and I will call your sorry ass on it - you have no right to interfere with me in any way whatsoever. You have no right to ask me zip shit, no matter what the local vigilante coordinator has told you.

      That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

      by enhydra lutris on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 01:38:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's what I said. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        enhydra lutris, chimene

        We say "good evening." We might praise someone's garden or maybe their bike, but no questions.

        Now, I wrote:

        We would stop asking question[s] after the first word. That word BE: "Good evening" or some greeting.

        If a person asked US something, we might supply the information or call for assistance.

        We and the police are not there to oppress.

        Are we (you and me) on the same page or no?

        --UB.

        "Daddy, every time a bell rings, a Randian Libertaria­n picks up his Pan Am tickets for the Libertaria­n Paradise of West Dakota!"

        by unclebucky on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 02:58:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ok, you say good evening, I say evening and (0+ / 0-)

          keep on trucking. End of story?

          That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

          by enhydra lutris on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 06:04:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Cut it the hell out... n/t (0+ / 0-)

            "Daddy, every time a bell rings, a Randian Libertaria­n picks up his Pan Am tickets for the Libertaria­n Paradise of West Dakota!"

            by unclebucky on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 08:53:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  OK, you bring this topic up and write a nice (0+ / 0-)

              little fantasy tale about how nice-nice it is, but refuse to answer and clarifying questions and get hostile when anybody asks them. Fine, I'm calling bullshit on your entire presentation and your whole little story and all you try to imply about how neighborhood watch works in your neighborhood.

              Here's what I think happens: You see somebody who you  think doesn't look right, who you think doesn't belong in your neighborhood and you try to subtly determine who they are, where they belong (live/work or both) why they're in your neighborhood and for how long, where specifically they're going etc. If you don't get satisfactory answers, you sic the heat on them, and get john law to roust them under color of authority.

              Glad to see it isn't any different wherever the hell you live than anywhere else. Unbiformity may not be good, but it is at least predictable.

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              That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

              by enhydra lutris on Thu Jul 18, 2013 at 11:42:21 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm afraid you are adding a lot to my original... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                enhydra lutris

                posts.

                And you don't know the context of what we did in our neighbourhood to get back our streets from the thugs, drug sellers and prostitutes.

                We had no desire to do this, but we really had no choice. We took the training. We worked with other neighbors. We informed those home owners and renters who were invested (children, nice houses, possessions, work lives, etc.) in the neighbourhood that we would represent them in a way that was not confrontational, not racist (the neighbourhood was diverse) and not risky.

                Leave it be said that we were PRESENT but not OPPRESSIVE ever.

                And in 3 weeks, all the thugs, drug sellers and prostitutes had picked a different town. Those other people, young, middle-aged, and seniors, were very happy about it and had a better neighbourhood as a result.

                --UB.

                "Daddy, every time a bell rings, a Randian Libertaria­n picks up his Pan Am tickets for the Libertaria­n Paradise of West Dakota!"

                by unclebucky on Sat Jul 20, 2013 at 02:49:54 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  And of course it never occurred to Zimmerman (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        enhydra lutris, unclebucky

        to introduce himself or send a leaflet to every residence and resident explaining who he is and what he does and what he looks like and what his vehicle looks like.

        So that when he drives around casing the houses and peering in their windows they will know it is just Georgie and not some pervert or burglar.

        •  A very good point. (0+ / 0-)

          And one that the one-sided "trial" never considered.

          I am telling all the bagguers here and elsewhere that the NW that Zimmerman seems to have been on and the one I was a part of were two different things.

          We weren't looking for suspects. We were looking for a neighbourhood that had gotten lost and was being revived.

          Ugh. --UB.

          "Daddy, every time a bell rings, a Randian Libertaria­n picks up his Pan Am tickets for the Libertaria­n Paradise of West Dakota!"

          by unclebucky on Wed Jul 17, 2013 at 08:57:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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