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View Diary: George Zimmerman, Off The Hook (186 comments)

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  •  Gun injuries are RISING!!! (4+ / 0-)

    Sadly, the statistics on gun injuries are different from the statistics on crime.

    And the statistics on gun injuries are that every year in America, over 100,000 people get shot, and over 30,000 of those die of their gunshot injuries.  Both the number of people shot, and the number of people fatally shot have increased every year since 2001 (according to the CDC) - as BTW did the number of guns sold

    And if you do the statistics, using the best available measures for non-fatal gun injury, fatal gun injury, and guns sold, you find that gun injuries and guns sold are positively correlated: more guns sold coincides with both more nonfatal gun injuries and more fatal gun injuries.

    "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

    by Hugh Jim Bissell on Fri Jul 19, 2013 at 08:07:47 AM PDT

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    •  Curious, from an article I saw, the actual rate (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      theatre goon, happy camper

      of firearm related death is dropping (small increase in suicide rate with firearm offset by a larger decrease in firearm related homicides).

      I finally found what I was looking for. Firearm related deaths are increasing but the actual rate of firearm related deaths per 100,000 has dropped. 2000 was 10.14 and right now it's 10.07. Wouldn't that point more towards population growth?

      Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

      by KVoimakas on Fri Jul 19, 2013 at 08:32:31 AM PDT

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      •  You and I have discussed this many times (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mikejay611, Laconic Lib

        You and I have talked about this many times.

        First of all, in talking about rates, everyone acknowledges that demographic factors such as age, gender, and socio-economic status play significant roles in who buys guns and who gets shot.  So if you want to talk about rates of gunshot injuries, you need to get more specific about the nature of the population under discussion.  

        Second, if you believe that population growth explains all of the observed increases in gunshot injuries, you have to explain why other types of injuries (like say bicycle-related injuries) are holding steady or decreasing at the same time the population is growing.

        "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

        by Hugh Jim Bissell on Fri Jul 19, 2013 at 08:58:47 AM PDT

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        •  I don't believe it's *just* that. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          theatre goon

          I do believe it's a contributor.

          I don't know if you've noticed or not, but there's a lot of red states stripping away the various (and meager) social safety nets we have out there. The poor are getting poorer...more poor? Poverty is one of the driving causes of violent crime. Has our income inequality gone up or down in the last decade?

          Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

          by KVoimakas on Fri Jul 19, 2013 at 09:28:48 AM PDT

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          •  What is a contributor? (0+ / 0-)

            What does your contributor contribute to?

            "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

            by Hugh Jim Bissell on Fri Jul 19, 2013 at 10:36:22 AM PDT

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            •  A contributor in my statement is something that (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              theatre goon

              could explain part or all of an increase or decrease (depending on what we're talking about).

              I think population increase can definitely be counted as one reason why the total number of shootings has gone up. I think there are others as well and gave an example in that comment.

              Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

              by KVoimakas on Fri Jul 19, 2013 at 10:56:30 AM PDT

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              •  Population growth alone CANNOT explain (0+ / 0-)

                Population growth alone CANNOT explain the increase in nonfatal and fatal gunshot injuries.

                A - Both fatal and non-fatal gunshot injuries have increased every year since 2001

                B - Niether fatal nor non-fatal bicycle injuries have increased over time beyond the number of injuries seen back in 2001.

                C - We expect that population growth will have the same effect on the number of bicycle riders as it does the number of gun users.

                We conclude: that population growth alone cannot explain the increase in gun injuries.

                "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

                by Hugh Jim Bissell on Fri Jul 19, 2013 at 12:19:11 PM PDT

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                •  o_0 do you read my comments before you respond? (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  theatre goon
                  I think population increase can definitely be counted as one reason why the total number of shootings has gone up. I think there are others as well and gave an example in that comment.
                  Oh and can you explain the 'why' C to me?

                  Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

                  by KVoimakas on Fri Jul 19, 2013 at 12:21:18 PM PDT

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      •  He ignores (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mikejay611, theatre goon

        the rate, which is the more meaningful number, because it doesn't help his case.

        "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

        by happy camper on Fri Jul 19, 2013 at 09:01:47 AM PDT

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        •  "The rate" (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Laconic Lib, Mathazar

          In talking about rates, everyone (both pro- and anti-gun) acknowledges that demographic factors such as age, gender, and socio-economic status play significant roles in who buys guns and who gets shot.  So if you want to talk about rates of gunshot injuries, you need to get more specific about the nature of the population under discussion.  

          Second, if you believe that population growth explains all of the observed increases in gunshot injuries, you have to explain why other types of injuries (like say bicycle-related injuries) are holding steady or decreasing at the same time the population is growing.

          "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

          by Hugh Jim Bissell on Fri Jul 19, 2013 at 10:39:32 AM PDT

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          •  I need to get (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            theatre goon

            more specific, while you are allowed to generalize and cherry pick?

            Whatever...

            "A lie is not the other side of a story; it's just a lie."

            by happy camper on Fri Jul 19, 2013 at 11:50:36 AM PDT

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            •  Yes, get specific (0+ / 0-)

              Yes, both you and I should be specific in our discussion of population rates.  

              You will notice that I did not talk about population rates for exactly that reason: I do not know the specifics of fatal and non-fatal gun injuries broken down by age bracket, gender, ethnicities, or socio-economic status.  

              I will not talk about population rates where I do not have the data to back up my assertions.  You are the one bringing up population rates and when I ask you for specific data you say...."whatever".

              "The fool doth think he is wise: the wise man knows himself to be a fool" - W. Shakespeare

              by Hugh Jim Bissell on Fri Jul 19, 2013 at 12:23:40 PM PDT

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