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View Diary: Zimmerman, Racism & Racial Progress (109 comments)

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  •  Most people do not understand the existence (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bruh1, politicalceci, a2nite

    of structural racism. Giving them a pat on the head and saying there there I'm sure you mean well, does not create understanding of the problem.

    •  In fact, the response here when (4+ / 0-)
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      Richard Lyon, TomP, politicalceci, a2nite

      I started to point out how the behaviors here were adding to the same environment in which a Zimmerman can exist (eg hiding behind reasonable doubt when one knows that racism is a part of the case and the cultural biases of it) and other legal arguments to avoid discussing race. ) The response was hostility and "how dare I" and how I was generalizing, etc. The typical responses in cases where one implicates how structural racism works.

      •  and you feel that that the 'how dare you!!' (0+ / 0-)

        defensiveness is what was driving the post we're talking about?

        Perhaps you should take another look and see what the  intent actually was.

        You're using a gigantic brush here.

        •  Yes, over time, with multiple interactions (5+ / 0-)

          and multiple events, I can say with certainty that I am clear that I am dealing with defensive posturing when the same people keep showing up to make excuses in different context. I can also use reasoning skills to understand this even if someone doesn't say it. Just like I can use reasoning (even if someone doesn't say it out loud) to look at statiscal data to make a reasonable judgment about what the stats  mean if the bias keeps showing up.

          •  I've seen a lot of the defensive posturing you're (0+ / 0-)

            talking about.  It shows up most of the time in the diaries that discuss privilege.   I don't dispute that it exists on this site.  Of course it does.

            But that is not what I'm seeing in the particular proposal discussed here.

            •  I am not refering the jb (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              a2nite, politicalceci

              I was referring other users of the site.

              I don't remember enough interactions to pass judgment

              Where I have seen this defensive posturing is actually in the context of the Zimmerman case where people will hide behind legal issues and say what they think the law is while ignoring the racism that's occurring in the application of the law

              Its the PiLi , which I will never forget as a warning that even on a site like this "this is how structural racism works", statement that Juror B37's comments about why she voted the way she did doesn't matter because the decision is final.

    •  and you think that this poster, who is a regular (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Be Skeptical

      member of this site and is actually posting a point of view that is designed to ameliorate a problem of race via class--

      is unaware of structural racism?

      Perhaps you should direct your outrage elsewhere (i.e. at people who deserve it) rather than chastising people who are ON THE RIGHT SIDE.

      •  Yes I think that he is (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        unaware. Frequenting Daily Kos wouldn't do a lot to enlighten one on the subject.

        •  perhaps it is easier to believe that (0+ / 0-)

          he is unaware, rather than trying to understand a somewhat creative approach to the problem (creative in that this country DOES NOT TALK ABOUT POVERTY--so discussion of it is, in fact, novel)

          I wonder why you choose to pigeonhole this person, rather than trying to understand what he has to say.

          Your lens is incredibly narrow, is quite self-serving, and lenses this narrow contribute to the perpetuation of both the racism and the classism problem.

          You ask people to spend time looking at themselves, and looking at the world.  That is a good thing to do. I would encourage you to follow your own admirable advice.

          •  I think that it is entirely reasonable (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bruh1, politicalceci

            to draw inferences about a person's attitudes from the arguments that they consistently make. The complete refusal to listen to any other point of view but his own demonstrates a restricted attitude. It is not a refusal to listen on my part.  

          •  Let add my perspective to Richard's point (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            costello7, politicalceci, amsterdam

            Dealing with a specific issue sometimes requires deciding even if someone is good one area, it doesn't mean they are good for other areas.

            The fact is this diary is about structural racism. Look  at my diaries, and you will see , that I am not adverse to discuss economic issues. Neither is Richard.

            The issue here is that, in the context of this diary, talking about class has the effect of appearing to change the subject. There is a time and place for all types of argument, but one has to try to figure out what that time and place is rather than shoehorn the discussion in that direction.

            We all have been guilty of what he is doing, but I really do what to focus on structural racism here. So, to continue to change the subject to economic issues does evidence a closed mind.

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