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  •  read what they posted in response (5+ / 0-)

    A person's character is measured by how they treat everyone. Not just your pet group.

    by Tempus Figits on Sat Jul 20, 2013 at 12:45:53 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  well, I did (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Onomastic, indubitably, etherealfire

      I think it's not too far off to say that kos's critics read his comment as "people who fuss about the NSA are full of white privilege." Some of the criticisms are fairly reasonable IMHO, while others seem like simple misreadings. Few if any seemed based on Snowden or Greenwald worship.

      Better Know Your Voting System with the Verifier!

      by HudsonValleyMark on Sat Jul 20, 2013 at 01:16:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "White peoples' problems" (6+ / 0-)

        That's the way I read Kos' comment. That the problem looms larger in white folks eyes because they don't have as many in-your-face problems to compete for attention.

        Be that as it may, Kos' comment was not phrased as well as it could have been.

        Myself, I gave it a rec over Kos' sympathies for Misters Greenwald and Snowden. The NSA criticism is a good tpoic for a national conversation, but that doesnot mean these two deserve a free pass for everything they've said or done.

        That's the problem with rec's. People give them for diffent reasons. From a Rushian megaditto, to I agree with some of this, to I don't agree but you agrue your point well, or eeven simply to mean "I read your reply".

        •  yes, that's a problem with recs (5+ / 0-)

          In this diary, I'm pretty freely reccing for discussion. In some diaries, I'm reluctant to do that (or I say "reccing for discussion," which is labored).

          I think a lot of people recced kos's comment to say, more or less, "Thanks for demonstrating that it is OK to say that here."

          "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." --Susan from 29

          by HudsonValleyMark on Sat Jul 20, 2013 at 03:28:24 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I rec'd kos' comment because I agree that (6+ / 0-)

            much of the hyperbole in the debate over NSA surveillance is a product of white privilege.

            I'm sorry, but when I see Ed Snowden, I guy who earned six figures with a GED, tell me that everything is being recorded? When I hear that, I think of the fact that almost 70% of the people in the world aren't even online.

            When I was last in Africa, I was lucky if my connection lasted more than a half hour.

            This is obviously not to say that we shouldn't have a debate about this. Also, the fact that the FISA court is not adversarial is of great concern to me. I think that's unsustainable.

            But when I see some guy put himself at the mercy of Vladimir Putin because he doesn't want to live in a world with mass surveillance?! Good Lord. I'm sorry, but in my estimation, Snowden is a "dude-bro" hacker Libertarian with nary a clue how the other half lives.

            •  good points (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              fou, Quicklund, etherealfire

              By the way, congratulations on this diary and comment thread. Apart from some silliness that I contributed to, it's been one of the more civil and thoughtful discussions in recent memory, and you share much of the credit for that.

              Possibly one reason I'm softer on Snowden is that I've barely seen (or heard) him at all, although I've read a lot of what he has said. People tend to form strong sight impressions; I don't have one or want one. We're perhaps hard-wired to care more about people than principles; I'd rather avoid the distraction when I can. (For a similar reason, if I stumble into a quarrel with someone on DKos, I try not to pay much attention to the identities; I would rather not have an enemy list in the back of my head, although a few handles do reliably make me wince.)

              Anyway, yeah, kos made that point about hyperbole pretty eloquently, although many people missed it, and some seem to be going out of their way to miss it. I didn't mean to downplay simple agreement as a cause of recs. (I don't even remember whether I recced it. It was the sort of comment that I would be ambivalent about reccing.)

              "I am not sure how we got here, but then, I am not really sure where we are." --Susan from 29

              by HudsonValleyMark on Sat Jul 20, 2013 at 07:37:40 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  I can definitely agree with that. (4+ / 0-)

          Unfortunately, it left way to much room for people to insert their own fears and hopes into the statement.  Especially on the fear part, the ensuing comments and diaries bear out that it could have been phrased better.

          A person's character is measured by how they treat everyone. Not just your pet group.

          by Tempus Figits on Sat Jul 20, 2013 at 04:08:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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