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View Diary: U.S. CENTCOM General: If Kerry-led Peace Talks Fail, Israel May Become an "Apartheid" State (238 comments)

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  •  Why do you think (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FG, GussieFN, Don midwest, Meteor Blades

    Barak went too far for a majority of Israelis? Public opinion polling consistently and robustly shows  a significant majority of Israelis supporting a two-state peace settlement. Ehud Barak's problem was Yasir Arafat and the second intifada, which together persuaded even more Israelis that the Palestinians were not seriously interested in a lasting peace with a secure Israel.

    Nor should we get hung up on the desirability of Barak's offer at Camp David. First, Arafat's failure was not rejecting it but rather failing to make a counter-offer. Second, and more important, the story didn't end at Camp David. In December 2000, President Clinton proposed the peace parameters--accepted by the Israeli government but rejected by the Palestinians--that have informed all serious peace-making efforts to this day.

    Shalom v' salaam; peace and wholeness

    by another American on Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 10:50:21 AM PDT

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    •  I read polls at the time, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      waterstreet2013

      not about a two-state peace settlement in general, but about Barak's offer in particular. It's possible that I'm mis-remembering, but I doubt it. They made a big impression on me at the time: if the most the Israelis could offer was less than the Palestinians could accept, it was hard for me to see any way forward.

      As for the Dec. 2000 proposal, that only rings a distant bell, and I'm not particularly interested in blamestorming. Plenty of that to go around.

      "Gussie, a glutton for punishment, stared at himself in the mirror."

      by GussieFN on Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 11:09:31 AM PDT

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      •  Not blame-mongering but understanding, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GussieFN

        lest we be condemned to repeating history.

        For a (relatively) brief refresher, I suggest reading The Myth of the "Myth of the Generous Offer".

        Shalom v' salaam; peace and wholeness

        by another American on Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 11:30:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  That's a strong diary, and (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Quicklund

          pretty much makes the point I was trying to make. If two parties are in disagreement, and the best offer from one side is not acceptable to the other side, there will be no agreement.

          And the comment go to what I meant about 'blamestorming.' People on all sides of the issue very much want to assert what is really happening, and who is really at fault, as if that's a) possible or b) helpful.

          Taking facts to an emotion-fight.

          "Gussie, a glutton for punishment, stared at himself in the mirror."

          by GussieFN on Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 12:11:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Discussion of this in "The Gatekeepers" (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        another American, Dogs are fuzzy

        interviews with the heads of Shin Bet does not reach any assertion that the Israeli public was unwilling overall to go with Rabin's deal.

        What happened was that the no-military-service religious fanatics campaigned relentlessly to have Rabin killed. They gave public speeches where their leaders called for his assassination.

        Shin Bet failed.

        It was not the general public who made the mess. It was the fanatics. The moral midgets who continue to inflame the situation.

    •  Ah yes. (0+ / 0-)

      It's all the fault of those pesky Palestinians.

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