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View Diary: U.S. CENTCOM General: If Kerry-led Peace Talks Fail, Israel May Become an "Apartheid" State (238 comments)

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  •  Why is it "a near-unconditional surrender" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JNEREBEL

    for either the Palestinians or the Israelis to agree to participate in negotiations intended to produce a peace agreement leading to a Palestinian state alongside Israel?

    Shalom v' salaam; peace and wholeness

    by another American on Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 02:48:49 PM PDT

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    •  Every supposedly "reasonable" proposal (4+ / 0-)

      or offer that has been put forward makes demands of Palestine that require an unconditional surrender on the part of Palestine. And most don't include any sovereignty except internally. It seems like an attempt to normalize the current situation through international intervention.

      If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

      by AoT on Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 02:52:41 PM PDT

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      •  Please document this. AFAIK, (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Quicklund, JNEREBEL

        American policy, at least since the end of the Clinton administration, has supported a two-states-for-two-peoples peace settlement. At any rate, this is my understanding of President Obama's policy and of Secretary Kerry's current efforts.

        If you consider Palestinian agreement to such a settlement an "unconditional surrender," then we're in disagreement, because I agree with President Obama and Secretary Kerry. If you do not think that way, however, then I confess to not being able to understand you.

        Shalom v' salaam; peace and wholeness

        by another American on Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 03:00:32 PM PDT

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        •  With absolutely no military for Palestine (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Code Monkey, poco, Flyswatterbanjo, corvo

          That's an unconditional surrender. A state that has it military affairs determined by an until recent belligerent neighbor is not sovereign by any stretch of the imagination. Unless you know of a proposal that allowed the Palestinians to protect their border.

          If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

          by AoT on Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 04:11:39 PM PDT

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      •  Please list the items that have been surrendered. (0+ / 0-)

        And where is Israel's signature on the surrender documents?

        •  The surrender documents (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AoT

          are the product of what we're calling "peace negotiations."  Of course they don't exist yet.

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 04:13:02 PM PDT

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        •  There has been no surrender (1+ / 0-)
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          corvo

          Re-reading what I said I realize I should have said "Two State proposal" and not just every proposal. Surrendering complete control of one's defense to one's enemy is as close to an unconditional surrender as I can think. In exchange they would get promises from Israel.

          If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

          by AoT on Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 04:13:33 PM PDT

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    •  Hardly matters. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AoT

      Recent reports suggest that Kerry's soapbubble has collapsed anyway.  And small wonder: The Palestinians (Abbas excepted) aren't ready to surrender; and the Israelis (Livni possibly excepted) aren't ready to let the Palestinians surrender conditionally.

      That's the way it is.

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 02:59:47 PM PDT

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      •  Why do use "surrender" to describe (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JNEREBEL

        what President Obama and Secretary Kerry are seeking, namely, a Palestinian state alongside Israel?

        Shalom v' salaam; peace and wholeness

        by another American on Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 03:03:56 PM PDT

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        •  Because we all already know (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          poco, Anastasia Castro, AoT

          the Israeli terms in their broad outlines.

          Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

          by corvo on Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 03:14:00 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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