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View Diary: A Friendly Reminder Concerning TM Assaulting GZ (376 comments)

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  •  And the prosecution has some blame there (16+ / 0-)

    as to her lack of credibility.

    They put her in the position where she told her story, under oath, with the victim's mother sitting right there.  That's no way to take the statement of a witness.  That resulted in two times that she admittedly lied under oath, and that was the first time she came up with hearing "get off, get off" (in prior tellings, she said she heard the bump and then the phone went off), so that's automatically going to be suspect.

    The jury is instructed on several things they can take into consideration in assessing the credibility of a witness, and the prosecution apparently did not prepare Ms. Jeantel to be perceived as a credible witness.  Almost anyone who watched here testimony, and was familiar with jury instructions on gauging a witness' credibility, could tell that the jury would not find her credible.  

    •  She did not look well-prepared (5+ / 0-)

      I'm not sure if it was because she was uncooperative with prosecutors or if the prosecutors simply did a poor job.

      •  This was a show trial (4+ / 0-)

        I suspect the prosecutor never intended to win. She got her marching orders and did her job, which was to lose the case.

        •  I hope you're not implying that she also wanted (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          patbahn, Dr Swig Mcjigger

          to lose the case, because there's no justificatiopn for making that accusation.  

          --------------------- “These are troubling times. Corporation are treated like people. People are treated like things. …And if we ever needed to vote, we sure do need to vote now.” -- Rev. Dr. William J. Barber

          by Fiona West on Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 06:53:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I imagine she WANTED to win (0+ / 0-)

            but also wanted to keep her job. I believe she was ordered to lose and therefore did so.

            This was an easy case to win. From jury selection to evidence presentation, to refutation of defense points, there was no reason to lose. It should have been a slam dunk.

            That it wasn't, speaks volumes.

            •  That's a heavy charge to make without a shred (0+ / 0-)

              of evidence other than "I believe."  Not valid.

              --------------------- “These are troubling times. Corporation are treated like people. People are treated like things. …And if we ever needed to vote, we sure do need to vote now.” -- Rev. Dr. William J. Barber

              by Fiona West on Tue Jul 23, 2013 at 12:21:01 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  I totally agree with you (3+ / 0-)

          From overcharging to poor witness prep. Would it have been too much to have a black prosecutor question Jeantel? How much of a stretch would it have been to take time to humanize her, walk through her friendship. How about repeat the salient points of her answers so that the jury and everyone else could understand what she was saying. But I suspect that the prosecutors treated Jeantel the way they treat most black witnesses-dismissively-and made no attempt to show her in a different light.

          What is so heart breaking is neither Rachel or Trayvon are accorded the latitude of being young, immature, teenagers. Jeantel looks older than her age, but her personality betrays a pampered protected child. According to Juror B37, --"that's the way they live"-never once did she sympathize with the position that Zimmerman placed Trayvon in. Indeed, she intimates that maybe Trayvon should not have been out so late-as in 6-7 in the evening.

          My son's white grandmother lives in Florida in a more tony area than Sanford. He is her only grandchild. He has just graduated college, clean cut, well mannered, nice guy. He wears hoodies. But he won't be visiting Grandma in Florida for awhile. We can't take the chance that someone might find a cum laude graduate from a highly selective school threatening at 6 in the evening.

          Keep fightin' for freedom and justice, beloveds, but don't you forget to have fun doin' it. Lord, let your laughter ring forth. Be outrageous, ridicule the fraidy-cats, rejoice in all the oddities that freedom can produce.---Molly Ivins

          by never forget 2000 on Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 07:51:42 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  The prosecutors did a poor job (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MartyM, True North, never forget 2000

        They really didn't want to win.

        Women create the entire labor force. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sympathy is the strongest instinct in human nature. - Charles Darwin

        by splashy on Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 02:41:35 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Are you referring to her statement (0+ / 0-)

      of March 19, 2012 (approximately three weeks after the shooting) where she mentioned that TM said "get off"?

      •  She did not. Read your own link. (7+ / 0-)
        The letter represents only the third statement by the key witness made public thus far. The state's filing denied any misconduct and accused the defense of grandstanding.

        The one-page letter largely corroborates Witness 8's other accounts of what she heard on the phone: Trayvon was returning from the store when he noticed a man following him and fled.

        Trayvon "turned around and said why are you following me!!" the girl's letter says. "Then I heard him fall, then the phone hung up," she writes, adding she thought "it was just a fight. Then I found out this tragic story."

        That was the third time she told the story of (1) "Why are you following me" (2) a noise (a fall, a bump -- she described it different ways); (3) then the phone hung up.

        On April 2, 2012, she added something new between items (2) and (3): that she heard someone say "get off, get off."  That's inconsistent with the first three times she told the story, one of which was the ABC interview and one of which was the writing.

        In any witness, such a significant change in the story is going to raise credibility issue.  Because that April 2, 2012 interview was where she was sitting next to Martin's mother and lied under oath, that increases the credibility issue.

        •  Coffetalk (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          That's inconsistent with the first three times she told the story, one of which was the ABC interview and one of which was the writing.

          such a significant change in the story is going to raise credibility issue.

          You mean like the boat load of inconsistencies in GZ stories ? O feel ya sister , if we are going by CREDIBILITY , then George  " I GOT MY ASS WHOOPED BY A KID" Zimmerman  should be on death row

          Jenteal was not INTERVIEWED by ABC NEWS , and she explained why she stumbled  

          But her turn on the witness stand, which will continue Thursday, was not without its problems. Don West, a lawyer for Mr. Zimmerman, attacked her credibility during cross-examination by pointing out inconsistencies with her past statements.

          He also got her to acknowledge that she rushed through an interview last year with Benjamin Crump, a lawyer for the Martin family, in which she first spoke about her phone call with Mr. Martin, and that she had sacrificed accuracy in the process. ABC News, which had been invited by Mr. Crump to listen in on the conversation, later broadcast portions of it. Still, her account on Wednesday of that final call captivated the courtroom.

          I am sure GZ could have taken the stand for 8 hours , got everything wrong , and still would have walked

          CREDIBILITY , that is hilarious


          Beer Drinkers & Hell Raisers

          by Patango on Tue Jul 23, 2013 at 01:30:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Do you want to discuss the (0+ / 0-)

          changing statements from your "reliable" witness, John Good? John Good changed his statements from, there was this black guy sitting on top of a guy in a red top, raining blows MMA style on the guy at the bottom, while the guy on the bottom was screaming for help
          I couldn't tell race, the guy on the bottom was wearing red or white, it is possible the guy on top was just holding the other down, I couldn't hear or see actual hitting, I couldn't tell who was screaming.

          He also began to walk away from who was on top in the second position, but just ended that sentence with "I only watched for 10 seconds and it was really dark".

          I find it telling that all the other witnesses are put down as hysterical or not reliable, especially since they were all women, and all agreed they either saw GZ on top of Trayvon, during the altercation or immediately following the altercation, or heard from Trayvon that he was being followed again and heard Trayvon's microphone dislodge after hearing someone bumping something.

          Let me list those witnesses again.
          Jane Surdyka
          Jeanee Manalo
          Selma Mora
          Selena Bahadoor, she saw what she thought was "the body" and no other person, when she looked the second time, which was the at the same time Selma was watching. She described the body being face down, but not completely flat on the ground, and wearing GZ's clothes.
          Rachel Jeantel

          This jury and the prosecution was a disgrace. They ignored all these witnesses, while buying John Good's 10 seconds of fame, without questioning.

    •  I feel really sorry for Ms Jeantel (0+ / 0-)

      She did not ask for any of this, and she only made mistakes  any of us would have made.

      She deserved none of the vitriol.


      She testified that Marin tikd her he was in the undercover mailbox area for 30-40 minutes, sheltering from the rain.

      If that were true Zimmerman would not have been able to see him from the street.

      She also tstified that Martin said he was right outside his father's girlfriend's house.

      And yet he ended up at the other end of the complex about 2 minuted later.

      According to her testimony and understanding, the fight took place south right outside his father's girlfriend's place.

      But that was not the case.

      I think it was more the case of Martin misleading Jeantel than Jeantel lying.

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