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View Diary: A Friendly Reminder Concerning TM Assaulting GZ (376 comments)

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  •  nothing you said (6+ / 0-)

    Disproves the authors main point which is who hit who first. All those witnesses say that TM was on top. Even if you believe that, that doesn't mean TM hit first. Their is NO evidence to show that TM hit GZ first which is what the author pointed out quite well. We know youre pro GZ but there's no evidence or witness you can point to show TM attacked first other than GZs statements which is the guy on trial.

    •  The forensics tend to support the notion (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      johnny wurster, Pi Li

      that Martin physically attacked Zimmerman, and Zimmerman did not physically attack Martin until the gunshot.   Zimmerman had injuries consistent with being hit or punched; Martin did not.  That is certainly not definitive, but if you had to guess who punched whom, you'd have to guess that the guy without the physical injuries hit the guy with the injuries to his face and head.  

      This is probably why the prosecution believed that what really happened is that Zimmerman pulled out his gun, pointed it at Martin, and that prompted Martin to hit Zimmerman in the face and get on top of him.  That is a a scenario where Zimmerman was the aggressor (because pulling out a gun is a threat of force), but Martin was the one to inflict physical injuries, hitting Zimmerman in response to Zimmerman pulling out a gun and pointing it at Martin.  Pulling out a gun would not leave physical injuries on Martin, but it would make Zimmerman the aggressor legally and would mean that Martin was defending himself.

      But while the prosecution believed that is what happened, they couldn't prove it.   If Ms. Jeantel had heard Martin say something about a gun (and if she had credibility as a witness), that might have been a scenario where they could prove it. With the evidence they had, the prosecution could not prove it.  

      •  again (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        doroma

        Nothing you said proves Martin hit him first. Just because he shown no signs of bruises or injuries doesn't mean he wasn't attacked. GZ could have grabbed him or pushed him or verbally assaulted him or threatened. We dont know.  All we have is GZ's word that he snuck up on him from some bushes and sucker punched. Thats the authors point. because I've seen a lot of right wingers claim that TM assaulted GZ which is bs and that is the point im making and the author is making . I'm not trying to litigate the case. Just trying to combat this meme that TM assaulted GZ which you and righy wingers are perpetuating. What we know is there was a scuffle where GZ got his ass kicked. We dont know who started it. Period.

      •  and btw (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Ian S, doroma

        If I had to guess who attacked, which doesn't mean injure or punch, who first, it would be the guy who said "these fucking punks always get away."

        •  The problem is that "guessing" ... (0+ / 0-)

          amounts to "reasonable doubt".  Period.  Whether a member of the jury or a private citizen, NO ONE KNOWS, thus there is no "reasonable doubt" that GZ was defending himself.  Arguing that "A" might have happened, or "B" might have happened, or even "C" is nothing more than an exercise in futility.  

          "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the universe." -- Albert Einstein

          by Neuroptimalian on Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 04:06:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Just becuause Zimmerman got his ass kicked (0+ / 0-)

        until he pulled a gun and shot the kid, doesn't mean it's impossible that he started the fight.

        The fact that Zimmerman had years of MMA training lends a bit of credibility to that scenario. Zimmerman had physical wounds from the fight. Trayvon did not. This doesn't mean you can say that it was more likely Trayvon started the fight. Maybe GZ went to make a move and Trayvon simply jacked him in the face, and it was on.

        The point of this diary is not to speculate on that actual confrontation. It's to assert that those that think "TM assaulted GZ" is fact do not have an actual grasp on the facts or lack thereof.

        Banking on the American people to be able to sort all this out and declare the adult in the room the winner is a very big bet. -Digby

        by Boogalord on Mon Jul 22, 2013 at 09:02:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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