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View Diary: Gun-totin' property owner kills a guy trying to defend his cousin, who urinated on a gravel bar (374 comments)

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  •  Update (0+ / 0-)

    Tod, didn't think about that one. Did a bit more research

    About 11,000 deaths outside of suicide occur each year About 300 of those 11,000 deaths are from justifiable homicide where people defend themselves.
    Another 350 of those 11,000 deaths are police justifiable homicides.  
    That means that about 10,350 combined criminal homicides, negligent discharge murders occur each year.
    Additionally firearms are used in about 456,971 additional crimes (this includes instances where the person had the firearm on/close to them, but did not present it.

    If we total this, we find the below.
    We have a total of about 467,321 used in crimes, resulting in about 10,350 murder victims.
    We have a conservative total of 598,000 times a firearm was used to prevent a crime, resulting in about 300 justifiable homicides.

    The statistics in the first post are from government institutions. The CDC, and the NCVS by the Bureau of Justice Statistics. I did not use the numbers by Kleck

    The statistics in the second post are from government institutions. The CDC, the NCVS by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, and the National Institute of Justice.


    •  Well (0+ / 0-)

      The report you linked to is not by the CDC.  It's the Institute of Medicine only requested by the CDC.  Per its website:

      The Institute of Medicine (IOM) is an independent, nonprofit organization that works outside of government to provide unbiased and authoritative advice to decision makers and the public.
      There's still an "apples/oranges" problem when the report compares reported gun crimes on one side with estimated self defense on the other side.  Limited the gun crimes counted to those reported will understate them, while relying on estimated self defense can lead to overstatement, (the shooter in the case that started this thread would no doubt report the shooting as just such a prevention of other crime as would Zimmerman), or at the very least relying on such estimates and surveys presents a much greater margin of error.

      If one accepted the data for the sake of argument, I suppose it would be for the proposition that gun possession prevents other crimes.  If that were the case then one would expect that other countries where civilians aren't armed to the teeth would have much higher robbery rates, etc. but that's not the case.  We have higher gun death rates than everybody else, but don't have correspondingly lower robbery rates, or lower rates for any other type of crime supposedly prevented by all those privately owned guns.

      I also take issue with dismissing all the gun suicides.  One of the problems is that attempted suicides by gun have a dramatically higher "success" rate than other forms of suicide.  Yes, people kill themselves in other ways, but much more often they survive the attempts made other ways and get the help they need.  

      •  Difficult (0+ / 0-)

        A simple straight comparison between cultures is difficult.  Suicide for example. about 20,000 people in the US commit suicide each year with handguns (over 50% of suicides are with a firearm). Japan has almost no firearms in civilian hand, yet they have a suicide rate of 22 compared to 12 for America.  UK's Suicide rate, with handguns outlawed, is tied with that of the U.S.

        UK has twice the contact crime victomization rate as the US

        Brazil and Mexico have strict gun control and extreme limits on firearms ownership, yet they have much higher crime and murder rates.

        Switzerland is well armed, and has among the lowest crime rates in Europe or the world.

        Here is an interesting link

        U.S. Assault rate is less than half of the UK
        U.S. Rape rate is less than half of the UK(9 W. European countries have a higher rate than the U.S.)

        Interesting article

        Final thought, we should compare homicide rates, not only homicides commited by firearm.

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