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View Diary: The GOP asks us to "Tell us what you REALLY think about Obamacare". I did. You should, too. (174 comments)

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  •  Are they telling you the President hates them? (18+ / 0-)

    I'm not in favour of any comment that pretends to know 'motivations' of anyone, whether Kossack or public figure, unless that person has literally stated their motivations or beliefs.  It's far better to simply stick to what people have actually said or done, because that's what actually matters.  Why they did it, far less so, unless it has bearings on something else they're also doing or about to do.

    •  tea baggers won't admit that they hate Obama (5+ / 0-)

      but their hate drips from every word they say about him

      it's the same with people here on dkos.  the hate drips from their words about the president.  

      you can tell me it's not there, but it's as plainly there to me as the tea bagger hate is


      •  Saying that there are some people at DKos... (63+ / 0-)

        ...who hate Obama is undoubtedly true and nobody, I think, would disagree with you.

        But saying, as you started out doing, that "Not many people are left here who don't hate Obama" is utter bullshit.

        Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

        by Meteor Blades on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 06:54:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  "Not many people are left here who don't hate (14+ / 0-)

          Obama" is bullshit.  Agreed.

          But surely you must acknowledge that there is a preponderance of people here who take every opportunity to take cheap shots at Obama.  It has got to the point that it is comical and predictable.

          What is not funny is that some of those taking cheap shots are also bullying and intimidating to other posters.  For these people, winning the game and scoring points is the top priority.  

          It is detrimental to debate of policy, and political issues in a constructive civil manner.  

          In the time it took Adam Lanza to reload, eleven children escaped. What if...

          by Sixty Something on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 07:28:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  You gave me a BAN threat for this comment?! (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          samddobermann, ccyd, elmo, Dvalkure

          Are you telling me that you didn't realize that I was being hyperbolic?  

          You know, I have been here for the entire time Obama has been President and I have watched as the people who support the President were treated SO BADLY for it that they left.  Nice people.  Not hard core activists, just regular folks who were really happy that a good qualified person was President.  Especially after 8 years of Bush.  And the way they were treated and the way the President was talked about with such disdain (usually reserved for person who are hated) was just too much for them and they left.  I miss those people.  Daily Kos seems smaller and less filled with heart with their absence.  What's left feels like being in a dying church.  That's how it feels to me anyway.

          But sorry for saying it in a hyperbolic and somewhat cryptic way.  I did that, because it doesn't seem to me that there's anyone left who gives a shit about all the people who have gone.  Ban me for saying that if you want, but that's how it feels to me.  

          •  daily kos has turned into a negative place (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            there used to be a mix of positive and negative

            there were the fights and they sucked but there was also the energy of hope

            and this was before Obama was even considered a contender in the 2008 nomination, so, you can't blame Obama for killing the hope he falsely promised.  the hope didn't come from him.

            the hope came from people who still believed that there WAS hope.  it seems like the only hope I see left around here is the hope that we might win another election.  which is just such a hollow hope.  

            where is the passion for a better tomorrow?  i still have it.  but i don't dare express it, because i can't take the crickets or the scoffing anymore.  

            my whole life i have been an optimist, but it wasn't until i came to daily kos that i felt like i couldn't fit in without holding back that part of myself.  i didn't used to feel that way.  but steadily, after Obama won, the optimism became more and more out of place here.

            it's just sad to me.  

            it makes me sad.

            •  The spying and growing inequality makes me sad... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Meteor Blades

              Priorities, priorities...

              •  Have you been spied on, dclawyer06? (0+ / 0-)

                I am pretty sure that I have been, because I spent the last years working with programmers from Pakistan and talking to them at length about work and movies and a certain 9/11 mastermind who was killed in their town.  

                And never once was the fact that someone was probably listening come even CLOSE to being as important to me as marriage equality and winding down the wars my brothers were fighting in and banning pre existing conditions, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc....

                So, you got me, dclawyer06.  My priorities are all fucked up.  

                •  What we need is an opt-in registry... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  for those, like you, eager to open their lives to the NSA. You can sign up and they can snoop on you freely and with your consent.

                  But the rest of us should have our 4th amendment privacy rights respected.
                  Full stop.

                  •  my point wasn't that it isn't important to me (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:

                    it's that it's not even close to my highest priority.  remember, you're the one who said 'priorities, priorities' to me as if my priorities are fucked up.

                    you know, about a year ago I requested my birth and foster care records.  i'm nearing 40 and i was finally ready to reach out to my birth family.  my records came in the form of about 4 inches of photo copied pages of documentation of my 6 years in foster care.  everything was there.  and since i have no memory of my birth parents, even though they visited me weekly for 5 years until their rights were taken away completely, these documents of every visit are almost all i have of them.  

                    i can read about the time my dad read me Pinocchio and then tried to teach me the difference between a story and what is real.  i can read about how he taught my older brother math.  i can read about the time i asked him what happened to the lady who usually came with him and he called her my mom and i told him that she wasn't my mom and he told me he was my dad and i told him that he wasn't, because i didn't know they were my birth parents.  i can read the comments made about all of these encounters and see the thought pattern behind how i was finally permanently taken away from them.

                    on one hand, i can't express how much these records mean to me, because they are the only connection i have to parents that actually wanted me (even though their problems meant they could care for me).  

                    but on the other hand, the records are so violating.  especially the way the people writing them wrote with such heartless mocking.  they were such fucking assholes.  just mean people.  cruel people.  and i have to read their cruel words to have any connection with my birth parents.

                    so, believe me when i say that i appreciate the anger about being violated by being spied on by the government.  especially when it's "for our own good".  

                    not being spied on is important to me, but it's not even close to being the most important thing.  and definitely not important enough to overshadow all of the good things that are important to me.  i care more about my best friend from high school being allowed to get married in our state.  i care more about my wife not being denied mental care for a pre-existing condition.  i care more about my brother in law and my younger adopted brother coming home from Iraq alive after multiple tours.  i can't prioritize being spied on over those things.  i just can't.

                    •  oops... medical care not mental care :P (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      dclawyer06, freakofsociety
                      •  Anton, with all due respect to the sensitivities.. (0+ / 0-)

                        surrounding your search for your birth parents, I have to object to the comparison between the record keeping attendant to an adoption to the NSA's data collection.

                        Those things are not the same. The NSA isn't doing this for the benefit of the citizens. Hell, they won't even explain their motivations beyond cheap fear-mongering about terrorism(which makes me wonder why they're eavesdropping on Brazil, is there an Al Qaeda cell in Sao Paolo)?

                        No disrespect, but I'm not buying it.

                        •  well, i don't see the benefit (0+ / 0-)

                          of writing that a dad's heart was broken to find out his son doesn't know he's his dad (and laughing about it as you write about it like it's funny).  it just seems like they used their power to look out for me to violate moments of intimacy.

                          and i mentioned it to express to you that while there are higher priorities for me, i completely agree with how you feel about spying.

                          take yes for an answer, man ;)

          •  Uprated (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            Can't compensate for a ban notice, but I'll give you a little mojo as a consolation.

            I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use -- Galileo Galilei

            by ccyd on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 06:02:51 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I've seen a lot of people leave (or get banned) (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            elwior, lostboyjim, la58, mjfgates

            for acting like asses.  I'm sure some nice folks left too, but no doubt they did so quietly, without calling the site a 'cesspit', or talking about 'hate' or talking about people 'shitting on' or 'pissing on' other people, as so many of the banned did.  The site is a better place without the constant badmouthing of the site and the users thereof as 'haters'.  

            It's gotten better since the last few purges, but there are still people who seem to have nothing better to do with their time than constantly attack other users and project evil motivations onto them.

          •  You have to realize who all the players are Anton (0+ / 0-)

            You might be surprised because you are looking at only part of the team and not recognizing their fans.

            Some things can not be said.

            The politicians may be bought, and the system corrupt, but it is our duty to fix these things.

            by sebastianguy99 on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 10:29:55 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Hyperbole (0+ / 0-)

          : (n) extravagant exaggeration (as “mile-high ice-cream cones”)

          It is a commly-used literary device.  I looked it up for you.

          I don't want to be utterly snarky, but downthread the poster said he got a ban notice.  That's an overreaction.

          I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use -- Galileo Galilei

          by ccyd on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 06:01:17 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Well, MB, here's the thing (8+ / 0-)

          Once upon a time, I used to battle conservative acquaintances on got to the point where every time I dared post something counter to their rant, I held my breath, expecting an onslaught of nasty responses. So I just stopped.

          I find myself holding my breath here now.

          •  Which unfortunately (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Denver11, sebastianguy99

            is exactly what those that do the most back biting would like to see happen. I don't comment as much as I used to.

            If peace is to prevail we all have to become foes of violence.

            by spacejam on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 08:25:53 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  But..But... (0+ / 0-)

            But you're RA Salvatore!!

            I mean... Actually, that's exactly what I mean!

            Minority rights should never be subject to majority vote.

            by lostboyjim on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 09:50:53 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Which leads (sometimes) (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              to personal shots included in the rebuttal.

              •  Dude, you kick ass, man. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:

                I still can't believe you put yourself out there like this.  It takes some serious courage and humility.  

                I released a game recently and it wasn't a big hit or anything, but it was generally well liked by the people who bought it.  

                Except for the people who were pissed about having to enter an activation code.  There is a whole huge 'controversy' among a lot of gamers about protection software.  

                I got a lot of public comments from some really pissed off people and they didn't just voice a complaint, they set out to convince other people to not buy the game on principle.  It was not a fun experience.  Especially since I had nothing to do with it.

                So, I don't even begin to know how you do it.  You put your work at risk by just being here.  And I remember how some people publicly swore off your books after you announced support for Unions in WI.  But here you are still.  Pretty kick ass, man.  You have my respect.

          •  It's been a wierd few months... (0+ / 0-)

            Lately, I'm to the post of every topic on facebook (Guns, Zimmerman), and to the right of every topic on KOS (again, Gus, Zimmerman).  It's an odd place to be. I feel like I'm a pretty standard left-center liberal, but I find in nowhere.

            Minority rights should never be subject to majority vote.

            by lostboyjim on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 09:52:33 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Tea baggers readily admit to hating Obama (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dr Erich Bloodaxe RN, elwior, IL clb

        Have to agree with the comments taking you to task for making such a broad assumption about people on dkos. Criticism of the president's policies is not the same thing as "hating" him. Some of us can actually separate the things he's done that we support (and like him for) and those that we don't. If all you need from your president is that you like him, well I hear George Bush is a pretty likeable guy, as was Ronald Reagan.

        Occupy Wall Street.

        by Polacolor on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 06:44:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  It's called inference, not implication. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        elwior, mjfgates

        It's there for you, because you believe in it.  So you see hate everywhere.  and you've got a crowd of folks who agree with you, because they see hate everywhere.

        That doesn't mean it actually exists, just that it exists for you.

        •  I infer from that comment that you don't think (0+ / 0-)

          the hate exists.  Your statement "so you see hate everywhere" implies that you have a very deep understanding of the poster's psyche.

          How did I do on the correct usage of the two terms?  :-)

          •  Hate does exist. (0+ / 0-)

            But unless you're only talking about yourself, you can only 'infer' that other people hate unless they actually tell you so.  The poster, and others like him, have continued to assign such emotions to other people for years now, despite being told by the people they accuse that they're wrong.  This says that they also believe that those people are lying to them about the 'hate' that they themselves claim to see from so many.

            I don't need to have a very deep understanding of the poster's pysche because I've simply seen him make such comments and such diaries over and over again.  All I have to do is read his own words, and I'm suggesting he'd be better off simply reading other people's words as well, and not read motivation and emotion into them, but simply take them at face value.

            •  Nothing like a breath of fresh logic. Thank you. (0+ / 0-)

              I have to give thank you notes now that someone decided I shouldn't be allowed to rate comments anymore.

              Barack Obama: From Nobel Laureate to excusing torture, to drone strikes, to violating the privacy of every person on earth. On the other hand, there's always Lily Ledbetter.

              by expatjourno on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 12:19:13 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  OK, or you could take Meteor Blades' approach (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.
               And because speech is behavior, sometimes you really can tell how people feel by what they write and the way they write it.

              Or as multiple other people have said at various times, "sometimes they really are after you."

              I don't track folks around here, so rarely know/remember what their trail of posts look like (unless I foolishly follow one of those threads you mentioned awhile ago that keeps getting pushed to the right).  And in that context, I suggest we both move on.  I'm sure we have more productive ways to spend our evening.  :-)

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