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View Diary: Mr. President: When Michelle Bachmann & Peter King Agree w/ You, You're on Wrong Side of NSA Debate (125 comments)

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  •  Legal analysis and proof of this: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lying eyes, duhban
    " ... huge secret programs that flagrantly violate the Fourth Amendment rights of tens of millions of Americans...."
    Please.

    I would tip you, but the man took away my tips.

    by Tortmaster on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 10:09:35 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Go write a response diary. (5+ / 0-)




      Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

      by DeadHead on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 10:44:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, to be fair, (7+ / 0-)

        it probably doesn't violate our Fourth Amendment rights as those rights and that amendment have been interpreted by the Burger, Rehnquist and Roberts Courts.

        Of course, that's a mighty low bar....

        "A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home." - James Madison

        by gharlane on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 11:14:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We should advocate for what we believe in, (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          PhilJD, Lost and Found

          even if that means saying that a majority of Supreme Court justices three decades ago, regarding a technology-driven subject, decided wrong. C'mon, folks, you're citizens. Think for yourselves, and assert yourselves.

          Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

          by Simplify on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 11:44:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I didn't think (0+ / 0-)

            that I needed a snark tag, given that last line of my post.

            Guess I was wrong.

            "A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home." - James Madison

            by gharlane on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 11:52:50 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Nah, I think I grokked you (0+ / 0-)

              The latter part of my comment was, I think, in line with your intent and intended for a similar audience...?

              Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

              by Simplify on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 12:07:27 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  You mean, Simplify, that in ... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            duhban

            ... 798 years of legal reasoning since the Magna Carta you can't find anything on point? Not one thing? I can find hundreds of cases to make my case.

            I guess that's what happens when you let people, who provide no reasoning, drive your thinking about a Government program that is 1,000X less intrusive than the Census and 100X less revealing than a telephone book.

            All this is quite embarrassing.

            I would tip you, but the man took away my tips.

            by Tortmaster on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 11:55:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Another strawman! (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          duhban

          Go find some applicable precedent from anywhere since the Magna Carta. No more strawmen, please.

          I would tip you, but the man took away my tips.

          by Tortmaster on Wed Jul 24, 2013 at 11:50:13 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Actually, we DON'T know that (5+ / 0-)

          because it's being interpreted secretly by a secret court, and the administration is making its own secret interpretation of the laws that Senator Wyden has clearly said run counter to the understandings of the legislators on the Senate Intelligence Committee.

          The only way to find out if it violate the 4th Amendment is to challenge it in a real court of law.  Since that is impossible, we have to rely on what we hear from people who do know the facts we are not privy to.  

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