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View Diary: Remember the two black teens who killed the baby? (273 comments)

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    •  And apparently.... (25+ / 0-)

      So did the father of the child, he was supposedly not with West when the baby was killed.  So how did residue get on the father?

      And that information apparently was gathered at the onset, but was not released until one of the defense attorney's demanded the release (now 2 months later).

      All the suffering of this world arises from a wrong attitude.The world is neither good or bad. It is only the relation to our ego that makes it seem the one or the other - Lama Anagorika Govinda

      by kishik on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 06:58:17 AM PDT

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      •  depends on which gunshot residue test.... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LilithGardener, kyril

        they used.  There can be both false positives and negatives.

        You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

        by murrayewv on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 07:23:19 AM PDT

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        •  So... (5+ / 0-)

          Does this mean any result will be discounted? Or that there was a follow up on a retest to get firmer results?

          All the suffering of this world arises from a wrong attitude.The world is neither good or bad. It is only the relation to our ego that makes it seem the one or the other - Lama Anagorika Govinda

          by kishik on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 07:32:18 AM PDT

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          •  or that they look at other evidence (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            kishik, murrayewv, kyril

            Likely there's other evidence, holes in the story, etc. that point to the real killer(s).  But if the police don't look for it, they won't find it.  Hopefully they did.

            "The international world is wondering what happened to America's great heart and soul." Helen Thomas

            by Betty Pinson on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 08:26:48 AM PDT

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          •  Now that the defense attorney has the results, (4+ / 0-)

            I doubt this information will be discounted. Which test???Geesh!!!

            Note: In one of the articles I read, Sherry West said she may have gotten residue on her hands as she tried to stop the shooter from shooting the baby. Then, Louis Santiago must have gotten residue on his hands when he went to visit her in the hospital. If you believe that, I've got............

            •  Just like their request... (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              HappyinNM, Tonedevil, kyril

              For the ballistics evidence?

              But then how good a witness (and the only one) will Sherry be? Maybe that's why everything has been so low key on this story.

              All the suffering of this world arises from a wrong attitude.The world is neither good or bad. It is only the relation to our ego that makes it seem the one or the other - Lama Anagorika Govinda

              by kishik on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 10:49:28 AM PDT

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              •  It depends on who prepares her and how (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                kyril

                good the defense attorney is. As I read the articles, I sometimes read some of the comments. It seems there are several people who have never believed her story. But it's fuckin' Georgia, so who knows? Now that we have this important new information, it would be good to focus the country on this case. Perhaps I should email Al Sharpton.

                •  just had a good discussion.... (6+ / 0-)

                  on forensics of some of these cases with an expert.  It is striking how often the forensic experts are not listened to by the jury, who retain the emotional response to the witnesses.  On gun shot residue- it is hard to see if someone washes their hands, and can be hard to see even after 6 hours with hand washing.  The residue could come from a gun you weren't holding- but the pattern would make a difference.  It could be transferred to the husband, but that seems unlikely with the chemical test.  there are two chemical tests- one tests for nitrates and the other for lead.  If they confirm each other, that is more convincing.  There is a sensitive test with Scanning Electron Microscope which is much more accurate- fewer false negatives and positives.  Not everyone collects that evidence though- often it is a quick wipe test.  Bullet recovery isn't a slam dunk either- only about 25% of the time can you get a pattern good enough to use in court.  Bullets can be deformed after striking the substance that actually stops them- like a wall.

                  You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

                  by murrayewv on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 12:05:33 PM PDT

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                  •  I'm not sure how your comment relates to (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    kyril

                    mine, but it's interesting information. To me, who has no knowledge about guns or gun powder, it seems impossible that someone would test positive for gun powder residue without contact with gun powder. From what I could understand from the ballistics experts who testified in the Zimmerman case, the distance of the gun from where it impacts determines how much, if any, residue is left. From the articles I read about this case, we don't yet know anything about the distance. Was the baby's face or the mother's thigh close enough to the gun to leave residue? If so, I guess it's possible for the mother to have residue on her hand(s). The fact that the father, who supposedly wasn't present for the shooting, also had residue on his hand(s), makes this story questionable in my mind. Add that to the fact that the mother was asking about when the life insurance would pay out, either that night or the next day, makes it more questionable. I couldn't find any info on when the policy was purchased. But I do think it's weird to have life insurance on a baby.

                    •  Insuring an infant not automatically weird. (4+ / 0-)

                      Any word on what type or amount of life insurance is involved?

                      Sadly, children do die from illness and injury. It's not as common as it used to be, but some parents still take out a small amount of term coverage or a "burial policy."

                      When my mom died in 2011, my brother and I discovered in her papers the $500 policies our parents had purchased for each child at birth (4 of us in all). We called the insurance company and found out the policies were still good. I put mine toward pre-paid cremation.  

                      Just because you're not a drummer doesn't mean that you don't have to keep time. -- T. Monk

                      by susanala on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 04:02:22 PM PDT

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                    •  More responding to the thread than you..... (4+ / 0-)

                      all good questions.  Typically people who buy life insurance on infants are buying one of those 10000 gerber life policies that convert to cash for college.  Not very good savings or insurance, but lots of people buy it.  If that is the policy, she could have been seeking funeral expenses.  If it was much more than one of those policies it would strike me as odd.

                      I can imagine the dad could have healed the mom's hand and transferred evidence.  There are lots of nitrates to give false positives, including fertilizers.  The tests themselves have a color change, and it is timed.  If someone swabbed their hands, then let the test go too long, they could get a false positive.  I teach forensic science and use the tests in a lab for the class, but I am not in law enforcement.  The SEM test picks up particles, and that is less false positive.  I suppose those particles could also transfer parrively, but I am less sure that is likely.

                      The evidence is not clear here, but the daughter going to the police seems very telling.

                      You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. Aldous Huxley

                      by murrayewv on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 04:03:09 PM PDT

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      •  According to news stories I've read (14+ / 0-)

        Only a couple, and all referring back to the same CBS source, the mother could have residue on her because she was shot; the father could have fired a gun, been near a gun that was fired, or come into contact with a surface that had gunshot residue on it.

        How likely is that?  (Genuinely asking -- I don't know.)

        I'll tell you what, though, Sherry West's daughter said that on the day of the shooting, her mother was asking how long it would take to get the insurance check.

        http://www.usatoday.com/...

        Maybe she's inappropriate, or nuts, or whatever.  But I can't help thinking if a black woman's baby had been killed, and she was acting the way Sherry West did, and then the father got busted for stalking, there's no way anyone would look at anyone other than the parents as suspects.

      •  I wonder (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kyril

        I wonder if he apparently wasn't there the only other thing I can think of is maybe it was him who got rid of the gun.  Maybe the Mother told him to go away so he wouldn't get caught and he could get rid of the gun or something.  Either that or there's lies being told about him not being there.

    •  and the father is now in incarcerated. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      shmuelman, kyril, Brooke In Seattle
      Over the phone, Sherry West told WJXT reporter Vic Micolucci that the residue found on her must have come from the struggle she says that happened with the teens charged in the murder: De'marquis Elkins and Dominique Lang.

      She says she didn't know why the test would come back positive for her baby’s father, Louis Santiago, but insists he was not there.

      By the way, West and Santiago are no longer together and WJXT couldn't reach him because he's in jail, being held without bond on charges of aggravated stalking related to family violence and violation of probation.

      Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/sherry-west-antonio-santiago-gbi-finds-traces-of-gunshot-residue-on-brunswick-georgia-parents#ixzz2a52WRaT0/blockquote>

      It's the Central Limit Theorem, Stupid!

      by smartdemmg on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 10:53:27 AM PDT

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      •  Yep (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        zett

        I actually don't think "Mom did it" is the most plausible story. I think "Dad did it, and Mom is a mentally-ill victim of stalking and domestic abuse who's convinced herself he couldn't have done it" is more likely.

        "Let’s just move on, treat everybody with firmness, fairness, dignity, compassion and respect. Let’s be Marines." - Sgt. Maj Michael Barrett on DADT repeal

        by kyril on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 05:06:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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