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View Diary: a “surveillance state that cannot be reversed”? (17 comments)

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  •  Empire is self-serving (4+ / 0-)

    It's not the means to an end, it's an end onto itself.

    I'm living in America, and in America you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business.

    by CFAmick on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 07:28:31 AM PDT

    •  Lord Acton was one freakin' smart guy . . . (1+ / 0-)
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      In April of 1887, he said:

      I cannot accept your canon that we are to judge Pope and King unlike other men, with a favourable presumption that they did no wrong. If there is any presumption it is the other way, against the holders of power, increasing as the power increases. Historic responsibility has to make up for the want of legal responsibility. Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority, still more when you superadd the tendency or the certainty of corruption by authority. There is no worse heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it.
      Kossacks take note: John Dalburg-Acton got it.  We've seen it happen before our very eyes as the hopeful changeful constitutional scholar Barack Obama entered the Oval Office and, by diffusion or osmosis or gamma ray bombardment became the persecutor of whistleblowers, the friend of banksters, the Lord High Judge and Executioner.

      I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever. ~Thomas Jefferson

      by bobdevo on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 09:38:54 AM PDT

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      •  Yep and in 1887 virtually all Europe was monarchal (0+ / 0-)

        Which might explain the mention of "Pope and King" in there. Clearly there has been no progress since then. Well, I'm off to catch the next ocean liner to the Belgian Congo, then it's off to the Dutch East Indies, then finally to pay a visit to the Spanish Viceroy in Manila.

        •  Progress? If anything - it's gotten worse . . . (0+ / 0-)

          with respect to absolute power corrupting absolutely - neither Pope nor Monarch had the use of predator drones nor the awesome surveillance capacity of NSA nor nuclear weapons for that matter.

          And both Popes and Monarchs are mortal --- corporations are perpetual . . .  as is there ability to control governance through their hired minions, aka Congress, the White House and the Supreme Court.

          I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever. ~Thomas Jefferson

          by bobdevo on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 01:01:27 PM PDT

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          •  Yes life was more liberal (0+ / 0-)

            when all of Africa were European colonies

            •  I didn't say that . . . what I said was the POWER (0+ / 0-)

              of the state was much less - and therefore the ability of the state to control humanity was less intrusive and all-inclusive.

              And if you don't understand that - then you can fold it five ways and put it where the sun don't shine.

              I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever. ~Thomas Jefferson

              by bobdevo on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 02:36:01 PM PDT

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            •  And furthermore . . . . (0+ / 0-)

              when Jimmy Carter - a Democrat last time I looked, and the guy who signed the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 into law, saying all electronic surveillance of US citizens now required a warrant - says we no longer have a functioning democracy (which was NOT the case in 1897 in the US) I take that seriously  Apparently you think Jimmy Carter is some Obama-hating commie?

              You claim to be a progressive - that's just bullshit.

              I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever. ~Thomas Jefferson

              by bobdevo on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 02:39:22 PM PDT

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              •  I think Jimmie Carter is one person. (0+ / 0-)

                He is welcome to his own opinion. I also point to the course of history to disprove your dystopian vision.

                •  Yeah, right, George Orwell was full of shit. (1+ / 0-)
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                  And this is the bestest country ever in the bestest of all possible worlds.

                  I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever. ~Thomas Jefferson

                  by bobdevo on Thu Jul 25, 2013 at 03:43:24 PM PDT

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                •  Jimmy Carter, the last Denmocratic President, (0+ / 0-)

                  is one person, but certainly not just any one person.

                  He was the sort of President who not only knew the Democratic ideology but understood and attempted to live it, however imperfectly, as consistently as he could. That is an ever more precious commodity these days, when people settle so easily for more comfortable versions, like the difference between supporting the GLBT in your mind and at the ballot-box but not in public conversation on the street, back when they needed it most. Those who would take that less comfortable have always been a minority, which is why movements take so long. But they are even fewer today than they have been in years not so long ago. It is easier to phone in your activism than it is to stand before a bankster with those who have been decimated  and declare it. Easier to hound Snowden than Jamie Dimon. Easier to deny the impact of globalization and climate change than to study the full impact as they are affecting and increasingly affect people and take an honest assessment of what it will take and firmly declare all the more convenient "eventualities" immoral imposters.

                  He was far from imperfect, as was Occupy for dealing with Wall St., but he was a lot more honest and on target than the alternatives tossed around like smoke bombs on a stage while mumbling about realism and seriousness, as if the realism and seriousness we are talking about isn't simply that which the Kochs and Karl Rove (in his prime) created for us, which we could replace but for the courage and conviction so uniformly and breathtakingly lacking among those who stand for the Democratic Party these days.

                  SECURITY, because ticking time bomb mushroom cloud of terror!!
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                  by Words In Action on Fri Jul 26, 2013 at 10:24:18 AM PDT

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