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  •  there is no law requiring clear cutting forests (0+ / 0-)

    it's also allowable to selectively cut in a sustainable schedule, and I"m not even arguing to cut forests anyway, just saying foresters have different ideas about what is healthy, and when we impoverish large numbers of people we should work to alleviate the suffering.

    “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

    by ban nock on Fri Jul 26, 2013 at 07:13:19 AM PDT

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    •  Maybe (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      unfangus

      but it's kind of a feature that if your economy relies almost exclusively on the intensive extraction of local resources, you have to expect there will be hard times as well.  I mean, trees only grow so fast.  If generation 1 comes in and cuts everything nearby and generation 2 cuts the second tier of trees, but it takes 3 generations to produce marketable trees, somebody is getting screwed.  

      To me, work to alleviate their suffering doesn't necessarily mean letting them cut the last remaining big trees.  It means reducing barriers to diversifying their economies.  For example, when we give corporations like WalMart huge tax advantages, the ability to pay low wages and no benefits, and we don't do anything about the flow of cheap Chinese shit onto their shelves, we make it impossible for those little logging towns to develop other sectors to their economy such as small retail and manufacturing or local farming.

      Then they don't make the connection, scream for "More trees!", and vote for the pro-WalMart and other corporations GOP and perpetuate their own problem.  

      Political compass: -8.75 / -4.72

      by Mark Mywurtz on Fri Jul 26, 2013 at 07:29:11 AM PDT

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      •  I was thinking of direct subsidies to displaced (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mark Mywurtz

        workers matching their old incomes until they can find new employment at the same rate.

        We should be doing that everywhere we displace workers due to govt policy.

        “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

        by ban nock on Fri Jul 26, 2013 at 07:36:21 AM PDT

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    •  there is the law of the market (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mark Mywurtz, ban nock, quill, cany, unfangus

      Clear-cutting is cheaper and more profitable for the companies.  That's why they do it.

      They don't give a rat's ass about the logger's jobs. They'd happily fire every one of them if they could make profits without them.  (shrug)

      •  That's true, in part (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ban nock, quill

        Unlike with mining, there actually ARE many small, family-owned logging outfits.  There are big, corporate ones as well, but any guy who can buy a few machines and insurance can become a logger.  

        Now, most of them are SELLING to big corporations that just want to see the cheap wood flowing in...

        Truth is, I'm not even sure those smaller logging outfits WANT to see so much timber available that the market prices are low, because they have to find a way to cut and move more timber for the same profits.  

        Political compass: -8.75 / -4.72

        by Mark Mywurtz on Fri Jul 26, 2013 at 07:47:38 AM PDT

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      •  the law of the market isn't a guiding principle (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mark Mywurtz

        for me and it shouldn't be for our country. Sure things should be profitable, and we shouldn't subsidize loser businesses, but profit is surely not the only consideration we should consider when deciding how to manage what is actually our forests.

        “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

        by ban nock on Fri Jul 26, 2013 at 08:22:46 AM PDT

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