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View Diary: Eric Holder to Russia: Don't Grant Snowden Asylum Since He Won't Be Tortured or Killed (50 comments)

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  •  If he really cares about freedom, (0+ / 0-)

    he'll happily give up his own.

    "Gussie, a glutton for punishment, stared at himself in the mirror."

    by GussieFN on Fri Jul 26, 2013 at 09:28:27 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Snark? (6+ / 0-)

      Destroy the village to save it?

      I simply don't understand this insistence on people having to martyr themselves to have what they do considered 'good'.

      I don't think we need an 'NSA Jesus'.

    •  If he was willing to stand up for principle (0+ / 0-)

      He'd follow the footprints of Ghandi and MLK more so than those of Kim Philby.

      •  Indeed, those are the two options: (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Words In Action, pgm 01, orestes1963

        Gandhi or silence. King or nothing.

        It's why I can't think of any examples of political activists who fled their home country for fear of prison. Not a single one. I bet you can't, either.

        "Gussie, a glutton for punishment, stared at himself in the mirror."

        by GussieFN on Fri Jul 26, 2013 at 12:31:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Hehe. (0+ / 0-)

          Zing!

          SECURITY, because ticking time bomb mushroom cloud of terror!!
          Shop Kos Katalogue

          by Words In Action on Fri Jul 26, 2013 at 12:37:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  That's why I said "more so" (0+ / 0-)

          Not "exactly so".

          Other people have been willing to take personal risks and those people usually end up admired. If you ask me uncounted millions of people slave away at dead end jobs and/or take personal risk in dangerous jobs, orin say crossing borders for work... and that is just to feed their family. These faceless millions are heroic but thre are not hundreds of diaries praising them.

          I do not doubt Mr Snowden feels his intent is good. I do not doubt Mr Snowden aims to help an entire nation, not a single family. So I am unmoved by Mr Snowden's desire to flee from personal risk.

          I just want Mr Snowden to have his day in court. If he is vindicated, fine. If he is convicted but his sentence waived, fine. If he is found guilty and serves 30 years, also fine. His fate is not the story, I have been assured.

          •  That is precisely how I feel (0+ / 0-)

            about Chai Ling and Zheng Yi.

            I don't doubt they felt they were doing good, or that they aimed to help an entire nation. So I'm unmoved by their desire to flee from personal risk. That's common sense.

            I just want them to have their day in court.

            "Gussie, a glutton for punishment, stared at himself in the mirror."

            by GussieFN on Fri Jul 26, 2013 at 02:15:10 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Sure. But even if he were, he would be rejected (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Claudius Bombarnac, orestes1963

        by the administration and its supporters for other reasons. The goalposts would just be moved.

        The fact is, he doesn't have to be Ghandi or MLK to have done and do a great public service. We have benefitted from many lesser saints than these over the years. He can be a flawed character.

        Also, there are many who would concur that he could not get a fair trial based on recent history in this area.

        I think the main issue is whether or not this is going to be the party that demonizes banksters who destroy the lives of millions or whistleblowers who reveal state secrets that would never otherwise come to light. I mean, regardless of whether or not much of the information was known and/or suspected, he provided tons of black and white evidence that we simply did not have, for the first time. Those who have been trying to do the same with one degree of success or another appreciate the significance of that. And the fact is, it has had an impact. It is different. Dozens of organizations are now suing the NSA.

        SECURITY, because ticking time bomb mushroom cloud of terror!!
        Shop Kos Katalogue

        by Words In Action on Fri Jul 26, 2013 at 12:37:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Actually by removing the distraction (0+ / 0-)

          He would be serving his stated cause far better. Running from personal risk does nothing for convincing fence-sitters and it most certainly gives ammunition to his permanent critics.

          I just want Mr Snowden to have his day in court. If he is vindicated, fine. If he is convicted but his sentence waived, fine. If he is found guilty and serves 30 years, also fine. His fate is not the story, I have been assured.

          •  Perhaps this is because you trust (0+ / 0-)

            the court.

            We don't. He doesn't.

            I wouldn't see the judgment any more legitimate than I will when we get the verdict on Bradley Manning.

            From this side, it's hard not to jump to the conclusion that those who want him to stand trial simply want to shut him up and punish him. Because that is the only possible outcome of that course of action.

            SECURITY, because ticking time bomb mushroom cloud of terror!!
            Shop Kos Katalogue

            by Words In Action on Fri Jul 26, 2013 at 03:31:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  the last thing snowden wants is a fair trial (0+ / 0-)

              Because he knows any trial will convict him
              I don't expect he ll come back voluntarily

              Happy just to be alive

              by exlrrp on Fri Jul 26, 2013 at 06:36:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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