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View Diary: Let Me Show You Why People Support Scott Walker (+ some videos) (172 comments)

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  •  So is there any way to deal with this? (16+ / 0-)

    Beyond 'get the real word out,' which obviously is great, except ... how does one do that?

    "Gussie, a glutton for punishment, stared at himself in the mirror."

    by GussieFN on Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 01:20:09 PM PDT

    •  Social media. Tweet & FB it like crazy. And you're (22+ / 0-)

      not using those tools, get over it and sign up!

      "I don't love writing, but I love having written" ~ Dorothy Parker // Visit my Handmade Gallery on Zibbet

      by jan4insight on Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 01:41:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Word of mouth is all we have (26+ / 0-)

      Most voters don't use the internet for news or information, don't tweet, but some do use FB.  They truly believe the crap the TM feeds them and that's the problem when our media is Pravda stenographing the talking points of the monied interests and their puppets.

      There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

      by Puddytat on Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 01:46:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Fundamental Problem of Progressivism. (25+ / 0-)

      We do not know how to make contact with, let alone persuade, the mainstream.

      The rightwing had this same problem in the 60's which is why developing means of communication was the beginning of today's rightwing revolution all the way back then.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 02:15:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Is trying to replicate their efforts the (4+ / 0-)

        equivalent of fighting the last war?

        How do we make contact with--let alone persuade--the mainstream?

        "Gussie, a glutton for punishment, stared at himself in the mirror."

        by GussieFN on Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 02:19:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Social media is a waste of time. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Puddytat, lotlizard

          It's a cesspool of corporate media and sock puppetry with a dash of corporate sponsored algorithm tossed in for message control.  

          We need to create an alternative media system - complete with compensation for quality programming, etc - that rivals the corporate media.

          Kos could have helped facilitate this by hooking up with FDL, MyDD, DU, Booman, Docudharma, (and the rest of the soap blox and scoop crowd), HuffPo, and dead simple RSS feeds, etc back in 2007-8 or so, but he decided to lock it down and make it a stand alone destination.

          Well, he crashed the gates, congrats on that... He didn't bring anyone with him, but he did it gol'darnit...

          And here we are, still - without any megaphone.

          Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

          by k9disc on Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 02:30:41 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Your premise is wrong. Social media launched (13+ / 0-)

            Arab spring. And the occupy movements.

            As for creating an alternate media stream - why don't you get it started! It'll only take a coupla decades and a mega-sized bankroll to do so. In meantime the rest of us will carry on with the tools we've got right now, TYVM.

            "I don't love writing, but I love having written" ~ Dorothy Parker // Visit my Handmade Gallery on Zibbet

            by jan4insight on Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 02:39:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I don't believe that social media launched the (5+ / 0-)

              Arab spring. I believe it may have played a significant role, and I know it was used, but started it? I don't think so.

              I did, at the time, believe that it was a big mover and shaker of that movement, but that's because Social Media was the zeitgeist and it felt empowering.

              Now, I think it's quite simply a datamining operation and a highly sophisticated form of Psyops, with the emphasis at this time being on the Psy - the ops has just started over the last few years, IMO, now that everybody is doing it.

              As far as creating my own media and networks I have been, for about 15 years. Pretty decent content too. I've been pretty influential in my little part of the world as well. I touch 55-60 countries monthly and the other day I had people from 5 continents on the site at one time (google analytics is scary!). But I'm just a small niche player looking for some distribution - and outside of the TV, it ain't out there.

              I've started and failed a couple of organizations on the media front, it's terrible work - thankless and pennyless, for the most part. All of us passionate, talented people are missing exactly 2 things to make a splash - money & distribution.

              You were not an user here when this place was a real mover and shaker - when did you get here? '08? Was that before or after the massive blowup with FDL? Before or after MSOC?

              This place had all the potential in the world to become an alternative media cornerstone, the Crashing of the Gates book included.

              But it didn't do anything but focus on getting respected by the corporate media. Some of the best talent here was run out of town in order to earn the respect of the corporate media.

              It was a terrible decision, a bad play, and it's done over and over by nearly every institution that gets close to the clout and power of the corporate media. They get close and then they lock it down and stop sharing.

              For politics to change we must have an alternative media presence with a large megaphone. Facebook & Twitter are just not going to do it - it's not their function.

              Peace~

              Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

              by k9disc on Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 03:04:14 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  I'd say that a comparison to the Arab Spring is (7+ / 0-)

              disenguous.  The US Media Conglomerate Apperatus has much more power and presence than the state media of the smaller, arabic countries that were involved.  That, and a reliable news source in those countries -was- available -- Al Jezeera, which has, in my experience, has done a far better job of actual reportage than our yapping-head-based-media does.

              When you're arguing against a RWer in the US, they can refer to 'authority figures' and their statements on news programs to back up their argument.  Actually referring them to first or second order sources that they'd have to read and interpret tends to be useless.

              •  And that's exactly why (14+ / 0-)

                Al Jezeera will be effectively shut out from the US market.  Look at how Time Warner and other cable providers took Current off their cable line ups before the ink was dry on the sale to Al Jezeera.  

                Ditto how CNN International, which has much better news than regular, RW loving CNN does, is only available on upper tier at a higher cost.  

                The TM fears those who produce actual, factual news because it exposes the crapola they put out.

                There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

                by Puddytat on Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 03:13:47 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Seems like this place kind of does too. (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Puddytat, mkor7

                  My comment somewhere right around here somewhere speaks to it.

                  Where are the other media sources that dKos should be caucusing or producing content with? I see no other organizations featured on the front page.

                  Why not? You know? We should be grooming these guys.

                  They've got CATO, AEI, CEI, and we've got dKos, FDL, and a couple of nice media entities.

                  I tell you, we could smoke CATO and AEI in content creation and meme generation. I have no doubt about it. We are smarter then them and don't have to lie.

                  But it takes organization.

                  jan4insight's comment about her SoMe presence prompted my comment because it's like pissing up Niagra Falls - it's not very effective, and teh people there riding the Maid of the Mist and looking at the pretty waterfall don't appreciate having their experience sullied.

                  Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

                  by k9disc on Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 03:27:55 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Until dKos can invade your home through (11+ / 0-)

                    push-based media -- that is, the boob-tube -- its ability to reach anyone is rather limited.  Furthermore, dKos -- The Great Orange Satan -- is implicitely an untrustworthy news source to most right-wingers; the fact that an assertation is made on dKos is de facto proof for them that it's false.  CATO and the AEI have enough money and contacts to not only get their crap in the papers and on the air but to saturate them; Kos doesn't.

                    Not that I don't take anything on Daily Kos without a grain of salt -- god knows that progressives have their own biases and will indeed slant news stories.  However, a good story on Kos contains substantiation in the form of links to more concrete sources than "some guy on the internet said so," and, OMG, I actually tend to research these before I say something, particularly when the story is rather outrageous.  But then, that's my reaction to just about any story I read from any media: if a source is available for more concrete information, go and check it out.

                    ...Of course, by doing this, I put myself in the maybe 5-10% of the population who actually gives enough of a shit and isn't too lazy to do that, much less those who regard Fox News as a Source of Holy Truths.

                    •  Right, totally agree - push is a key - which (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Puddytat, Praxical, greenearth

                      means that there must be more than politics. Has to branch out into wider culture.

                      You are totally correct in that the strength of this place is in the linkage & social vetting that goes on here.

                      I think ubiquity is probably a better term than Push at this point in time, but your point is totally valid.

                      I think that we are entering a stage in media where push is kind of a relative term - YouTube has HUGE potential, as does internet radio, but finding it, pulling it in is a bit tough and kind of requires political passion.

                      There's all kind of latent talent lying around this place and the Left of Center in general - TONS Of it.

                      Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

                      by k9disc on Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 05:20:43 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Proof on a personal level (4+ / 0-)

                      My RW brother and his friends were preaching to me about the Constitution. When I brought up the actual text of the document, they were dumfounded. They had never read it!

                      •  Perfectly said (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        marina, nadd2

                        They get told what to believe and believe what they're told.  Unlike rational adults they're not skeptical.  I keep wondering if these are the guys the Nigerian Prince is targeting.

                        There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

                        by Puddytat on Sun Jul 28, 2013 at 11:56:50 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

            •  You know? Are there any Progressive Media (6+ / 0-)

              outlets out there?

              You would think on a blog of this size that there would be a sizable contingent of Progressive media outlets featured prominently on site.

              Where are they? Why are they not here?

              There is no network.

              I could start such a network, but I don't have nearly a million users, and politics is not my business - it's my writing practice and a passion of mine.

              This place, connected with Real News, Democracy Now, the Kagro show, FDL, whoever else is out there - and some of the smaller corporate media rags could really establish a foothold for Left of Corporate Center politics.

              Places like this are the hubs from which an alternative media structure should grow.

              Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

              by k9disc on Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 03:21:49 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Well you could just buy them all up. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          greenearth, Puddytat

          How can you control the content any easier than if you own them?

          This better be good. Because it is not going away.

          by DerAmi on Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 10:22:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  It's not so much the medium - it's the message (12+ / 0-)

        I do creative work in advertising and I'm constantly amazed by the stupidity and sheer ineptness of left oriented communications.
        Stunning, really.
        One perception to lose immediately is this:
        If we tell the truth it doesn't much matter how we tell it - it will get through.
        Wrong. Totally and completely wrong.
        It doesn't matter if you tell the truth if no one believes you.
        I could go on and on but that one point is something the left needs to learn and learn well.

        •  And the left is LOUSY at lying and fear-mongering (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Puddytat

          Terrified that being mean and nasty will backfire, perhaps.

          Even with overwhelming evidence to the contrary, this broken wisdom persists.

          The audience is driven by fear. The audience is deeply insecure. The audience believes that everyone else is lazy and stupid.

          The audience is not us.

          "Never wrestle with a pig: you get dirty and the pig enjoys it"

          by GrumpyOldGeek on Sun Jul 28, 2013 at 11:35:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  We're trying! But, hell, we barely get (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Puddytat

        support from this site that we chose to park our platform. And, granted, progressives tend to be readers more than listeners, but we "birthed" our little internet radio effort right here on the G.O.S. with every intention of it being an outlet for the likes of Kagro X and the FPers - AND an outlet mostly geared toward generating activism from sea to shining sea. A platform we could use to help mobilize and help organize the masses.
        What we (orange progressives) also need - badly - in my less-than-humble opinion is an orange flavored Newspaper in every major city, with an effort to expanding the paper into the smaller towns and villages. But, that takes effort and hard work and... But, I see a time in the not-too-distant future where all the big cities and small towns are running an local yokel orange flavored and orange colored "Newspaper" (might be just a two-pager), run off the same template created right here on the G.O.S. so that, no matter what city or town you live in or visit, the "local paper" looks exactly like the "national paper" (that doesn't exist).
        Yeah, I know, might be the weed...  But, our weakness as progressives is we're mostly talk backed by damn little action. Which is why we started up our little internet radio effort. And, that might be a shameless plug, but none of us got involved for the fame and fortune. We got involved so that more folks like Kagro X have a platform to add their two cents to the converstaion - and recognize "on the air" those folks getting it done in their local communities.
        An orange newspaper wouldn't hurt either.

        •  Information should lead to action (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          winkk

          Like the protests in Madison in 2011 when we got the word out about Act 10 by phone banking lists of union members and they got the word out to friends and neighbors.

          Building infrastructure like radio and newspapers takes time and money.  We tend to forget that Rush Limbaugh was a miserable failure on radio for years.  The only thing that kept him broadcasting were the piles of money that the RW backed him with.

          Progressives who don't have access to radio where we live stream on our computer.  And now there's a new outletthat DK radio might want to become part of.  Syndication might help, too.

          Most important is patience!  Lots of it.  Rome wasn't built in a day and neither is a media audience.

          Hang in there.

          There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

          by Puddytat on Sun Jul 28, 2013 at 12:03:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  RW radio's louder than the protests. protest there (6+ / 0-)

      why do the media or politicians have to listen to a bunch of harmless meddlesome protestors? nowadays a few blowhards with badgers stickers on their megaphones, yelling koch bros/ALEC talking points all day from the loudest radio stations in the state, and then still doing it weeks after the protests are over, are louder than a bunch of protestors with smartphones.

      those radio stations are walker's most important media tool because they are UNCHALLENGED by the left and

      protest those stations and the media will take notice. and the politicians.  protest the University of wisconsin for supporting RW radio and walker.

      get wis badgers off RW radio  (two limbaugh stations and probably a number of others that don't do limbaugh)- walker's best tool RW radio is still louder than social media. RW radio and walker will take a huge hit if the university declares it's going to honor its mission statement, will not renew it's contract with those stations, and will stop supporting racist anti-education anti-union pro ALEC BS RW radio.

      the only excuse a university has for broadcasting sports on RW radio is that they may be louder and therefore will pay more for the privilege- what bullshit excuse is that for supporting KKK-lite anti democratic radio?

      everything the GOP/walker is doing to wis/ and education funding etc has been going through RW radio. sponsors drop drop the stations in droves without the badgers stickers. the same in mich (10 limbaugh stations between the wolverines and spartans).  and north carolina (tarheels on 8 limbaugh stations). 170 limbaugh stations and countless other RW pro walker pro snyder stations piggyback our schools. RW radio would fall apart without that community credibility and ad draw. the entire political landscape would change. RW radio is the samson hair of the GOP. those stations are its sstate HQs.

      and politicians will start having to listen to protestors again.

      This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

      by certainot on Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 03:59:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Those stations are also propped up (8+ / 0-)

        with a whole lot of RW money, too, in order to get their message out to the masses they want to propagandize.

        Even worse is that the Kochs are now looking to buy newspapers in order to turn them into complete RW puppets.

        There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

        by Puddytat on Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 04:12:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  MSM's more significant for what it leaves out (4+ / 0-)

          and there's still some competition there. less than there used to be but still some.

          with TV or print or internet we can change the channel or page and get political alternatives, within 'acceptable' limits.

          that's why i have a much bigger problem with talk radio.

          in most parts of the country there are no free alts for politics while driving and working. they can hide behind call screeners and lie without challenge to their certitude. they don't have to look into a camera when they lie. and they can be coordinated on local, state, and national levels. paid callers can start rumors/lies, etc. and there's very little written record. it is so ubiquitous and loud that it can overwhelm. it is the loudest PC cop and censor-by-threat in our history. it can turn a molehill into a mountain in days, and visa versa.

          it has been successfully used to decide what and who is acceptable and unacceptable in media and politics and culture, and has moved the political center to the right as perceived by the MSM. it successfully short circuits our democratic feedback mechanisms and makes fact-based national discussions of major issues impossible.

          there's been nothing like it in our history.

          This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

          by certainot on Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 06:10:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Add to that the domination by (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            greenearth, certainot

            Premiere Radio (home of the national radio shills), domination of station ownership by Clear Channel, and the never ending purchase of progressive radio stations or "format changes" at progressive changes and you have 100 % saturation of this country by RW radio with very little progressive radio (usually on low power stations).

            People often have a choice of which RW station to listen to while progressives site at their computers streaming the shows.

            On top of all of that, the RW haters have a bevy of local RW shills that cover "drive time" to propagandize folks on local and state issues.  Any progressive station generally carries only the national hosts.

            There already is class warfare in America. Unfortunately, the rich are winning.

            by Puddytat on Sat Jul 27, 2013 at 09:15:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  the RW lie liberal radio can't compete is repeated (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Puddytat

              even by progressives and i say to them the notion that 95% of americans who do or would listen to talk radio prefer the wit and wisdom of limbaugh and hannity is an insult to all americans!

              the locally targeted aspect of RW radio is very effective for them- as in selling voter suppression laws, etc.

              i think the dem party could make significant gains if the state dem HQs had a software package that would allow them to automatically transcribe the local shows and make them available for quick searches at the end of the day or week- so they don't get surprised with a bunch of lies showing up in the rest of the local media etc. and can stay ahead of the usual swiftboating of the dem candidates. and bieing able to go to the local media with a record, etc. paid callers can call in with 'rumors' about dem candidates, for instance. and so on.

              This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

              by certainot on Sun Jul 28, 2013 at 10:15:08 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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