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View Diary: NYT Lead: House Dems “Increasingly Unified” As “Momentum Builds Against N.S.A. Surveillance” (295 comments)

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  •  And what are the chances Obama will veto (13+ / 0-)

    any reform legislation?

    I suspect he would be politically isolated at that point, and would instead get out in front of it and declare how glad he was to have moved the conversation towards reforms. Everybody wins.

    The Fierce Urgency of Later

    by Faroutman on Mon Jul 29, 2013 at 04:52:14 AM PDT

    •  And will he actually go so far, (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      NonnyO, corvo, britzklieg, PhilJD, 3goldens

      as many Dems did with the Amash bill, to say that it's because the reform is not good enough for the American people.

      Okay, but how many shits is it worth to you?
      Shop Kos Katalogue

      by Words In Action on Mon Jul 29, 2013 at 06:16:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  All talk, no action... (8+ / 0-)

      ... leaves us where... exactly...?

      See, that's the problem with Obama and many of our legislators.

      They're full of words ... and short on actions.  They don't DO anything sensible or logical, haven't since 12 December 2000.

      I'm sick of attempts to steer this nation from principles evolved in The Age of Reason to hallucinations derived from illiterate herdsmen. ~ Crashing Vor

      by NonnyO on Mon Jul 29, 2013 at 06:28:05 AM PDT

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      •  I am not at all impressed with their talk, (7+ / 0-)

        and I am a firm believer that talking is powerful politics.

        Their talk is inoculative or palliative in nature. It's desensitizing and deadening, much like the corporate media when covering uncomfortable topics for the Establishment.

        It's crafted to put the listener at ease with what is being done.

        If someone were to strongly challenge the NSA, I would not be giving them shit for 'just talking' if they were not able to act - Kucinich comes to mind here...

        When truth is hidden or misleading, just talking about the truth is powerful stuff.

        "I welcome that debate [about secret courts and domestic spying that does not exist - through proper channels, of course] is exactly what I'm talking about.

        Those words fit the actions. I find most of the Democratic Establishment's words fit their actions.

        It's really cynical stuff.

        Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

        by k9disc on Mon Jul 29, 2013 at 06:54:12 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Seems very unlikely. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Lying eyes, Fogiv

      Think back to the fights between Obama and Congress over Gitmo closing, trying KSM in civilian courts, or indefinite military detention. Obama has consistently been to the left of not just the median Congressman on security and terrorism issues, but the median Democrat.

      It would be very out of character for him to be to Congress's right. I can't think of a single issue in which that has been the case.

      Art is the handmaid of human good.

      by joe from Lowell on Mon Jul 29, 2013 at 09:18:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  50/50 at this point...10/90 if his numbers drop. (0+ / 0-)

      Adequate health care should be a LEGAL RIGHT in the U.S without begging or bankruptcy. Until it is, we should not dare call our society civilized.

      by Love Me Slender on Mon Jul 29, 2013 at 10:51:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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