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  •  I would think that an experienced activist (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nada Lemming

    such as yourself would not believe that "waiting" would make any of those things happen.

    Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." -- Frederick Douglass

    by Cassiodorus on Mon Jul 29, 2013 at 02:49:19 PM PDT

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    •  An experienced activist like myself has... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Odysseus

      ...been hearing for just short of five decades the argument that we must bring down the capitalist system before anything real can happen. I participated in some of those topple-capitalism groups as they splintered the organizations and shredded the individuals in them over the "correct" way to make that toppling reality. Let me say that I got pretty f'n sick of that bullshit and see little evidence that it's any different today.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Mon Jul 29, 2013 at 03:18:07 PM PDT

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      •  It's really too bad you: (3+ / 0-)
        see little evidence that it's any different today.
        I see plenty different today.  

        For one, the global growth rate, which has been shrinking for four decades now, is rapidly approaching zero, and the powers that be themselves appear to have an inkling that the era of capitalism is in fact drawing to a close.  And it appears that they are doing something about it -- furiously cementing their privileges through every government resource they can buy.

        Resources are scarcer, the world is far more proletarianized than it was in 1968, and protest is more widespread.  Austerity planning is no longer just for "third world nations" in Asia and South America; now it's for Europe.  The world economy has become a giant house of cards based on the unregulated trade of CDOs and CDSs.

        So, OK, are you going to let the .01% decide what will happen after capitalism collapses of its own dead weight, while you tell yourself that nothing has changed?  Maybe I should be talking instead to young people who are more favorable to socialism...

        Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." -- Frederick Douglass

        by Cassiodorus on Mon Jul 29, 2013 at 04:22:57 PM PDT

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        •  You missed MB's point, and went for the ageist (0+ / 0-)

          insult instead.

          He wasn't saying the world hadn't changed...he was talking about dynamics within formal groups "claiming" to be "revolutionary."

          they splintered the organizations and shredded the individuals in them over the "correct" way to make that toppling reality. Let me say that I got pretty f'n sick of that bullshit and see little evidence that it's any different today.
          From my experience, those formal groups still think the same. "Nothing will happen until there's a revolution. There can't be a revolution without the correct vanguard to lead it. You have counter-revoutionary tendencies that prevent you from being in that vanguard. Therefore WE actually need to struggle with YOU first."

          That meme didn't appear much in OWS, and that is why OWS got traction. Initially it caught both the govrnment and the formal groups off-guard. Normally, the internal "struggling with each other" of these groups effectively kills off protests before they even begin to become movements.

          If you haven't been associated with our formal revolutionary groups, you wouldn't believe how effective they are in killing off movements and doing their part to maintain the status quo.

          The Americas greatest political dynasty...the Kaan

          by catilinus on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 10:15:59 PM PDT

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