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View Diary: Raising McD's wages to $15 only adds $0.68 to Big Mac cost (97 comments)

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  •  $20/month for health insurance! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dirk McQuigley, Samer

    Just where are they getting that.  My insurance costs many times that.  The only way I see that employees could get a policy for $20/month would be if the employer paid most of the premium.  And I would bet that given the low wages that McDonald's is paying that this isn't the case with McDonald's.

    •  More from Leonard Pitts Jr (7+ / 0-)

      I REALLY should read this guy more. He is so spot on:

      As you might expect, the McBudget is mildly controversial. Washington Post blogger Timothy B. Lee called the figures “realistic” and praised McDonald’s for “practical” advice. This seems to be a minority opinion. ThinkProgress, the left-leaning website, called the budget “laughably inaccurate.” Stephen Colbert skewered the company, saying a $20 health insurance premium will buy you “a tourniquet, a bottle of Night Train and a bite stick.” In the Wall Street Journal, columnist Al Lewis suggested that McDonald’s $13.8 million man show us how it’s done by volunteering to live on the McBudget.

      The most vexing thing about that budget is its condescension. Take it from this welfare mother’s son: If there’s one thing poor people do not need, it is lessons in how to be poor. To the contrary, you will never meet anyone who can wring more value from a dollar.

      We’re talking every trick of layaway and two-day-old bread, coupon clipping and off brand buying, Goodwill shopping, Peter robbing, Paul paying and plain old going without. You ever hear of a jam sandwich? That’s when you “jam” two pieces of bread together and call it lunch. Heck, if you handed the federal budget over to a couple welfare mothers, we’d be in surplus by December.

      I love that last sentence.
    •  Ya know.... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tool, Dirk McQuigley, corvo

      I have questions about much of their inventive costs.  
      Rent-$600?  Where I am that gets a studio, maybe.  And not in a very nice neighborhood.  
      Cable/phone-$100?  Really, where is that, I'm moving there.  
      $20-health insurance?  WTF?  What are they smokin'?  Not even close.
      What a ridiculous 'budget'.
      Let their CEOs (ya know, the ones getting $8.75 million a year) try living on cheap pay for a year, let alone their whole lives, and see how much whimpering/whining/complaining comes from these fat cats.

      I think, therefore I am........................... Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose....AKA Engine Nighthawk - don't even ask!

      by Lilyvt on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 06:43:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Even MORE from Leonard Pitts Jr. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Lilyvt, Tinfoil Hat, jennybravo, Tonedevil

        The conclusion of the same column:

        Look, there are many reasons people wind up in poverty. Sometimes they make bad life choices — they drop out of school without salable skills, or they become teen parents. Often, it falls on them from the sky in the form of illness, injury, addiction or financial reversal.

        However they got into poverty they all need — and deserve — the same things: a way to work their way out and to be accorded a little dignity while they do so. The former comes with paying a living wage, the latter by treating people with respect and not presuming to teach them what they could teach you. McDonald’s fails on both counts.

        The McBudget is a McInsult.

      •  rent $600 (0+ / 0-)

        can probably be done if several people share an apartment.

        My neice's rent is less than that (one of 3 roommates).

        Same for cable/phone.

        •  You seem to show up in every diary arguing for (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          corvo, Tonedevil

          higher pay for workers - advocating the exact opposite policy proscriptions for what workers actually need. Care to disclose who you work for and what interest you have in this conversation besides "passing curiosity"? I don't mean to insinuate that you are debating in anything less then good faith - but at this point you are ether willfully trolling or have a vested interest in ensuring that every supply side - pull yourself up by your boot straps - lies are circulated in this thread - instead of what the focus of the conversation should be -

          That all workers need a raise at this point and 15 dollars an hour is a drop in the bucket in terms of policy proscriptions this country needs to recover.

          “The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.” George Orwell

          by Tool on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 07:36:59 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  i'm a statistician (0+ / 0-)

            in the healthcare industry. I'm only a fast food customer. I think this is my 2nd diary on the topic. I don't think i've circulated a single lie.

            But if you raise wages beyond the revenue generated by the work, the workers will not be hired and the companies will not be profitable.

            I want healthy profitable companies and for people to have work.

            Obviously if you paid every employee $100 an hour the company would go out of business trying to sell $20 Big Macs. Everyone loses.

            At some price point, actual harm is done by raising salaries too high.

            •  A living wage is NOT "too high" (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Tonedevil

              No one's advocating paying McDonald's workers $100/hr.

              Not even they themselves.

              Hell, as despicable as Henry Ford may have been in other ways, he at least had enough business acumen to realize that, from a purely economic standpoint, it made sense to pay his workers enough that they could afford to buy the cars they helped build.

              We don't want our country back, we want our country FORWARD. --Eclectablog

              by Samer on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 08:19:57 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  obviously not (0+ / 0-)

                the example was merely to demonstrate that a point exists where too high wages are destructive. Once that is recognized, then the question becomes one of trying to figure out where that might be.

                My understanding was that he paid higher wages to reduce turnover to make the assembly line more efficient and reduce the cost of the car so he could sell more of them.

                I doubt that the profit earned selling one more car was greater than the extra money he paid them.

                from wikipedia...

                The standard 4-seat open tourer of 1909 cost $850; in 1913, the price dropped to $550 and $440 in 1915. Sales were 69,762 in 1911; 170,211 in 1912; 202,667 in 1913; 308,162 in 1914; and 501,462 in 1915. In 1914, an assembly line worker could buy a Model T with four months' pay.

                By the 1920s, the price had fallen to $260 because of increasing efficiencies of assembly line technique and volume.

            •  Is it harm or just change? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              corvo, Tonedevil

              If $20 Big Macs put McDonald's out of business, people will still be buying food.  They will simply get it elsewhere.  McDonald's goes under but maybe grocery stores see a boom and more workers are hired there instead.  Or maybe restaurants that charged more already but also paid their workers more see an increase in business, and hire more.

              That's the thing about the market: it adjusts/corrects itself.  Maybe it's not such a bad thing for society if we had fewer Big Macs and french fries being consumed.

              •  yes mcdonalds going out of business (0+ / 0-)

                would be harmful

                harmful for the 1.7 million employees now earning a living.
                harmful for the people with 98 billion invested in the company.

                But yes i agree that companies will fail and the market will adjust. But it isn't a good idea to impose policies that cause businesses to fail.

                If you favor the market deciding things, then shouldn't the market also determine the wages of the employees?

                •  If there are unions, then sure (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Tonedevil

                  Management has far too much power over labor for labor to get a fair slice of the economic pie they help to generate.  It's one of the many failures of a truly free-market system in terms of being beneficial for society.

                  But in a general sense, markets work and are useful.  They do need regulation to help make them work in a beneficial way though instead of being mere exploitation.

            •  It's not YOUR diary. I wrote it (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Tonedevil

              I love how you try to claim this as YOUR diary, when I was the dude who wrote it. Who are you, Mitt Romney, taking credit for other people's work? That was really a cheesy and jerky thing to do.

              •  i did not intend to imply that i wrote (0+ / 0-)

                it as i obviously did not. I was trying to say that this is the second diary on the topic that i have participated in.

                happy to clarify.

                •  Yes you did and here's the proof (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Tonedevil

                  Taken verbatim from your dubious claim:

                  i'm a statistician (0+ / 0-)
                  in the healthcare industry. I'm only a fast food customer. I think this is my 2nd diary on the topic. I don't think i've circulated a single lie.
                  Not only did you intend it based on the words you used above, but then you lied about not doing while claiming to never lie. You must be a troll.
                  •  i was responding to a post titled (0+ / 0-)

                    "You seem to show up in every diary arguing for"

                    so it should be clear that it isn't my diary. i guess i could have been more explicit writing it as

                    I think this is my 2nd diary commenting on the topic.

                    but since my name isn't Dirk McQuigley it did not occur to me that the readers would be too stupid to misunderstand.

                    maybe i think that they are a bit smarter than you do.

                    So again i will apolgize for my lack of clarity.

                    THIS DIARY BELONGS TO DIRK. ALL CREDIT TO DIRK FOR ITS AWESOMENESS. PLEASE DO NOT ASCRIBE ANY CREDIT WHATSOEVER TO DVEIGHT WHO MOST CERTAINLY DID NOT WRITE IT AND DESIRES NO CREDIT FOR IT NOW OR AT ANY TIME IN THE FUTURE.

                    •  Using clearer language would have clarified that (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Tonedevil

                      Look, you are new. I see you have only been a member for like three weeks. Know the difference between a comment and a diary. There is this big box on the top right column that has a different line for diaries and a separate line for comments. So yes, this is the 2nd diary on the subject that you commented on. Readers aren't too stupid to know the difference. But yet you couldn't tell the difference between a comment and actual diary that you wrote, which at present is still zero.

            •  "At some price point, actual harm is done ... (0+ / 0-)

              ... by raising salaries too high."

              I notice this trope is never raised when in discussions of the salaries of top executives.

              Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

              by Meteor Blades on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 09:54:17 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  Depends where you live. A lot depends... (0+ / 0-)

          Where I live, you can decent place in a decent neighborhood for $600 per month.  I only charge my tenant upstairs (we own a duplex) $750 per month, and that's for a nice second story 2-bedroom 1-bath with separate dining room.  It has refinished hardwood floors, granite countertops, stainless appliances, central heat and air in a very nice neighborhood that is highly desirable to live in. We live within sight of one of the best botanical gardens in the world and the second largest park in town.  Our neighborhood is havily patrolled by city cops, and is very safe. An area east of here is a popular hangout with a lot of bars, restaurants and shopping and it is walking distance.    And, to the north is a rebounding inner city area that is becoming the LGBTQ section of town with tons of bars, clubs, restaurants and shopping.  We're biking distance to two major universities, one of which is a top-15 institution in the country.  

          For $600 per month, you couldn't rent my place, but I'm confident you could get one close by for that amount.  

          •  But, in another part of the country.... (0+ / 0-)

            (I meant to include this as the second part of my post above, but got too happy with the post button)

            I could charge my upstairs tenant $2500 per month for that place, and she'd happily pay it.  And getting something else for $600 would be impossible.  

            I know, because my wife and I lived in one of those places.  

            So it all comes down to where you live.  And not everyone has a choice where they get to live.  My wife and I do, but a lot of people wound up trapped where they are.  They are so busy making ends meet that they can't even save up enough money for a Uhaul, deposit for a new place, etc.  

             

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