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View Diary: Grand Bargain 2.0: Obama to offer tax cuts in exchange for investment in jobs (152 comments)

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  •  Making the offer DOA (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mmacdDE, artmartin

    but making the optics really awful for the GOP.

    "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

    by newfie on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 08:08:09 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Policy vs Politics (0+ / 0-)

      Let's focus on getting something done, even if it has to be done w/o the GOP.

      "The international world is wondering what happened to America's great heart and soul." Helen Thomas

      by Betty Pinson on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 08:09:11 AM PDT

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      •  I tend to agree but (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mmacdDE, artmartin, Gurnt, sewaneepat

        you also have to play on the political court.  Nothing is getting done nor has a chance of getting done - or very little.  Policy AND politics.  They are tied. Just ask Lincoln.

        "You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"

        by newfie on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 08:15:49 AM PDT

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        •  Elizabeth Warren presents a good example (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          emal

          The CFPB is a stellar example of good public policy that was enacted without a lot of focus on DC politics.  It was the right thing to do and it was necessary.   It was created in spite of enormous pushback from conservatives, Wall Street and robber barons.  

          Nothing is impossible in the world of government and politics.  Everything is possible if you don't let political gamesmanship drive the agenda.  OTOH, nothing is possible if you don't try and if you let some silly-ass political computation keep you from doing the right thing.

          "The international world is wondering what happened to America's great heart and soul." Helen Thomas

          by Betty Pinson on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 09:30:42 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The alternative is a bunch of Exec orders (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            artmartin

            if Repubs control the House. Like was shown on his gun control proposals, they only go so far.

            I was gonna listen to that, but then, um, I just carried on living my life. - Aldous Snow

            by GoGoGoEverton on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 10:30:19 AM PDT

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            •  He should have done Exec orders in his first term (0+ / 0-)

              We wouldn't be in this mess today if he had.

              What is he waiting for?  What is he afraid of?

              "The international world is wondering what happened to America's great heart and soul." Helen Thomas

              by Betty Pinson on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 12:45:22 PM PDT

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              •  Which particular orders would you say he (0+ / 0-)

                should've done? And what effect do you think each would've likely had?

                I was gonna listen to that, but then, um, I just carried on living my life. - Aldous Snow

                by GoGoGoEverton on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 01:20:00 PM PDT

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                •  I should put it in my sig line (0+ / 0-)

                  I've been asked this question so many times.

                  To start with, there are multiple opportunities to use the power of the federal government's contracting system to require contractors to employ US workers and purchase goods, services, materials, etc. from US sources.

                  There will be a few exceptions, but for the most part, it can be done.  Lots of jobs to create there.

                  He could also raise the required minimum wage that federal contractors pay to employees.

                  "The international world is wondering what happened to America's great heart and soul." Helen Thomas

                  by Betty Pinson on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 08:20:29 PM PDT

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          •  Elizabeth Warren is not the President (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Wordsinthewind, Gurnt, sewaneepat

            She's a relative unknown to the majority of voters in this country.  Brilliant and fiery but, as a Senator in a very blue state, she can pretty much say and do as she pleases without affecting anyone else in the party or the direct lives of millions of Americans.  Her job is safe.  No other politician needs her coat tails for their own success.  She's not wrestling with a world on fire, horrors coming across her desk each day.  

            Let's also remember that we wouldn't have a clue who Elizabeth Warren was if she was not elevated to the status she has by the very guy you're bashing.  Why don't you ask her what she feels about Barack Obama?  I'll bet her answer would floor you.

            •  Yes, and she got it done (0+ / 0-)

              in spite of all the whining and kvetching from both parties.

              So, yes, claims that good necessary public policy must be sacrificed to politics just isn't true.  It's almost the same as saying "We can't pass that law or enact that program because the corporate donors won't like it."  

              Voters eventually figure out when they're being fed BS, and political leaders end up with low voter approval ratings in the polls.

              "The international world is wondering what happened to America's great heart and soul." Helen Thomas

              by Betty Pinson on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 12:48:12 PM PDT

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              •  From both parties? (0+ / 0-)

                Who in the Democrats ever seriously stood in her way?

                And Betty, Congress as a whole has an incredibly low approval rating yes but go to the vast majority of individual constituents and ask them about their own Senator or Representative (I despise mine by the way).  You'll find that they think he or she is doing a heck of a job.  

                Elizabeth Warren is a wonderful woman and I support all the stuff she proposes but I can ask 20 registered voters here in Arizona who she is and be lucky to get one that knows.  This country is not the Kos bubble.  The President doesn't work for just us, just for Progressives, just for Democrats.  As soon as he stepped into those shoes his life and his way of working had to change.  The last President that tried it the way you and your bunch desire was Jimmy Carter.  He ended up mincemeat and ushered in Ronald Reagan.  Before that JFK and his brother thought they could bring change quickly and brashly.  They both ended up in bloody puddles.  

                Have you thought that just maybe someone like Elizabeth Warren is the radical mouthpiece of Barack Obama.  I think he empowers people like her for just that purpose, plants the seed of progressivism indirectly, lets it start as an ember.  Same goes for Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, the outspoken bunch that can scream the truth while not having their party go down in flames around them.  

                •  Warren isn't a mouthpiece for anyone (0+ / 0-)

                  Obama's knowledge of public policy and government remains pretty limited, despite his years in the WH.  He's not an expert by any means.

                  "The international world is wondering what happened to America's great heart and soul." Helen Thomas

                  by Betty Pinson on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 08:22:35 PM PDT

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          •  Elizabeth Waren was not even in gov't when (0+ / 0-)

            The bill creating the CFPB was passed. Who pushed it? who passed it? Who appointed her?

            You can't scare me, I'm sticking to the Union - Woody Guthrie

            by sewaneepat on Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 02:25:09 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  You do understand the budget (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Gurnt, sewaneepat

        passes through the House.  No exceptions.  Spending gets authorized by the REPUBLICAN-CONTROLLED HOUSE.  How do you get something done without them?  I'm open for suggestions.  Seems to me our one last chance to do that during Obama's term is to retake the House in 2014, hold onto the Senate.  To do that requires politics, complicated and risky maneuvers, irrational offers to them they can't take, with timing set to confront loudly peaking right before elections.  The media is on their side.  The only possible chance is to find every possible way to shine the light of obstructionism onto the right, box them into corners, cause infighting between their ranks and absolutely to keep us out of recession or depression.  From everything I see Obama is playing that game brilliantly despite what you and others on here (a site that doesn't mean spit to the vast majority of Americans) care or say.

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