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View Diary: First TV ads hit in Colorado recall, financed by extreme 'gun rights guru' (143 comments)

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  •  So this is their approach? (9+ / 0-)

    Trying to make Mike Bloomberg their designated villain-du-jour? Are these ads really going to have much impact in Colorado - outside of the extremists who have already made their minds up?

    PS: ARE these ads having any effect? I haven't seen any polls on the Morse/Giron recalls lately...

    •  Haven't seen any polls, but I would think these (13+ / 0-)

      ads would certainly fire up the hard core - that said, I'm betting that because the measures that were passed were mild - background checks and 15 round limit on magazine clips - and given Aurora was just 1 year ago and given Sandy Hook and given Gabby Giffords and crew went to the state house during the legislative session, that others are going to dismiss the East Coast politician thing. Colorado has suffered two of the worst gun incidents - Colubmine and Aurora. And, Morse's district has a high rate of gun violence.

      Add all that up, and my gut says many will give Morse a pass.

      An equally good question to raise is, will Colorado Springs voters - some of the most conservative in the country and the ones who put anti-tax/anti-spending on the map - accept a $250K bill to run this recall thanks to some spoiled sports who didn't get their why in the normal course of the democratic process. Morse is out in 2014 (term limited) - so why go to the trouble (time & money) of doing this now?

      The hard core gun rights folks won't think twice about it - others probably will.

      •  Plus it's more than just the Aurora theater and (10+ / 0-)

        Columbine.  Colorado has had multiple additional school shootings, there was a church shooting in Colorado and there have been multiple people arrested separately here for bomb making within the last year.

        I don't want to put a negative light on my adopted state, but the Wingers are really unhinged because they lost control of the state legislature, the governorship and some federal offices.  They're acting just like the spoiled brats they are - they were fine when they got to do all the legislating away of rights, but now that Colorado has turned away from the Abyss and refused to go all Tea Bagger in the 2010 and 2012 elections, the Republicans are trying these recalls and trying to secede (North Colorado) because "they're not being heard at the state level in Denver".  Civil Unions are now legal.  Marijuana is now legal.  Guns may be a little harder to get if you've got a record and you can't buy them with the 100 round magazines like James Holmes tried to use on the Aurora Theater.

        I like living in Colorado, more now that the state is teetering more blue than red.  For the first time in my life I'm represented by Democrats for all my political party offices all the way up the line.

        To these Republicans, all I can recommend is to stop fighting and try cooperating.  You might find out we can make progress together.

        •  Thank you for a local perspective - context helps (6+ / 0-)

          a lot.

          "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

          by LilithGardener on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 10:16:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Colorado gun law is far from radical (8+ / 0-)

          No matter what some RKBA extremists would have us believe, on balance CO gun law is really in the middle of the pack.

          Knowing the law - Colorado gun law

          To advocate for gun safety legislation and better enforcement of existing laws we all need to know which laws apply. For those of us who are not constitutional scholars, the best single resource I have found is the Law Center for Prevention of Gun Violence.

          They have a well organized website where you can search gun laws by federal, state, or policy. They have excellent digests of Heller and MacDonald and are tracking all the gun laws that are currently percolating up to SCOTUS.
They are also tracking changes to gun laws proposed by some states and local jurisdictions.

          Here's their digest of Colorado gun laws:

          Colorado State Law Summary
          Updated July 1, 2013

          In our publication Gun Laws Matter 2012:  Understanding the Link Between Weak Laws and Gun Violence, the Law Center ranked each state based on a review of state laws in 29 different firearm-related policy areas. Colorado ranked 22nd out of 50 – having enacted a limited number of gun violence prevention laws. Since that ranking, however, Colorado has significantly improved its public safety laws involving firearms.

          Among other things, Colorado:

              •    Regulates all private transfers of firearms, including at gun shows, and requires that all firearm transfers, with very limited exceptions, be processed by a licensed firearms dealer prior to transfer;
              •    Conducts its own background checks on firearm purchasers through licensed dealers and denies a firearm sale if the background check cannot be completed within the three-day statutory period;
              •    Requires that mentally ill individuals who are ineligible to possess firearms be reported to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, the agency that processes firearm purchaser background checks; and
              •    Prohibits the sale, transfer and possession of certain large-capacity ammunition magazines.

          Colorado does not, however:

              •    Prohibit the transfer or possession of assault weapons or 50 caliber rifles;
              •    Require firearm dealers to obtain a state license;
              •    Require firearm owners to obtain a license, register their firearms, or report lost or stolen firearms;
              •    Impose a waiting period on firearm purchases;
              •    Limit the number of firearms that may be purchased at one time;
              •    Regulate unsafe handguns;
              •    Significantly regulate ammunition sales; or
              •    Provide law enforcement discretion to deny a concealed handgun permit.

          Local governments in Colorado, with the exception of Denver, generally lack authority to regulate firearms or ammunition.

          In 2010, Colorado ranked 25th in the number of gun deaths per capita among the states. 555 people died from firearms injuries in Colorado in that year. Colorado is also a crime gun exporter. Based on data published by Mayors Against Illegal Guns, in 2009, Colorado exported crime guns at almost twice the rate at which it imported them – in other words, guns that had been originally purchased in Colorado were recovered after being used in crimes in other states at twice the rate at which crime guns originally purchased outside Colorado were then recovered inside Colorado.

          Go here if you want to know more about handgun licensing and concealed carry law in Colorado, from the responsible gun owner's RKBA perspective, go here. For any other state, go here.

          "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

          by LilithGardener on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 10:17:30 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  most are suicides (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            FrankRose, Newt, ColoTim

            we have one of the lowest gun homicide rates in America.

            Take out Denver and we're like Utah or Wyoming or something.

            2010 in Wiki had like sixty something.

            That's why I don't like it when people say death tax or gun violence. Misleading.

            “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

            by ban nock on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 08:14:50 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  555 people died from firearms injuries in CO (3+ / 0-)

              How is that statement is misleading? That number includes firearms injuries from all sources, accidental shootings, suicides, acts of self-defense, as well as crimes.

              I'll grant you that gun crime is a subset of gun violence. I just don't see how it is necessary or useful to restrict attention to gun homicides, and ignore all the other shattered lives.

              --------------- Alternative analyses to LCPV ---------------
              here">The Washington Post analyzed gun injury deaths and broke out suicides and homicides for each state.

              They list: 33% of adults in Colorado have guns in the home
              2008-2010 mortality data (CDC)
              115 homicides and 151 suicides

              The Geography of Gun Violence

              The data (from 2008, the most recent year available) include accidental shootings, suicides, even acts of self-defense, as well as crimes.
              You can look at the CDC mortality report yourself. I have to admit I only have a vague idea of what they mean by age-adgusted rate. Gun injury deaths are detailed on p 97 and compared to other top causes of death (excluding illness).

              "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

              by LilithGardener on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 11:56:02 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  well you comment goes on about crime guns and (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                FrankRose, andalusi, Kasoru

                magazine capacity, and conceal carry and all that kind of stuff yet statistically it's just some later middle aged guy deciding now is as good a time to go as any. And I don't know how we get from 555 (link doesn't work) to 260 CDC or sixty some odd on WIKI.

                If you spent half the time talking about how  horrible suicide is I could see it. But you don't, and you folks never do, you go on and on about the horrid gunslingers and your data is about suicide. A dishonest argument does more harm than good. When people figure out you have your finger on the scale of facts they tend to discount the rest of what you have to say.

                We'd probably agree that there are a bunch of idiots shooting each other up down in Denver and Colorado Springs, and other than a couple out in Junction that's where almost all of 2013's homicides happened, but you have to be honest with the statistics.

                “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

                by ban nock on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 04:46:49 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  There are times when it's useful to focus (3+ / 0-)

                  only on homicides, and set aside suicides. It makes it far easier to see gun violence as an urban problem, an urban policing failure, or a failure of urban residents to resolve disputes without violence. It's easy to blame urban gangs, and drugs.

                  "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                  by LilithGardener on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 07:55:23 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  ya especially because they are two very different (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    FrankRose, andalusi

                    things. One is a crime where you steal someone's life and is the most serious crime in almost every country.

                    The other is a personal decision one makes about one's own life and is legal in many places.

                    When you blend the two everyone assumes you are talking about the first, and all of the remedies you talk about are for the first, but the statistic is mostly for the second.

                    Gun violence is homicide. When you use that term use it to mean homicide. Yes it's mostly cities, yes its an urban problem and urban people refuse to fix it. Instead of guilt tripping rural folks why not fix the causes. Poverty, underemployment, income inequality. Why don't you people give opportunity to young guys other than gangs.

                    “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

                    by ban nock on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 11:26:08 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  There you have it (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      tytalus
                      Yes it's mostly cities, yes its an urban problem and urban people refuse to fix it.
                      You mean except for "urban problems" like New York, and "urban people" like New Yorkers. NYC was at one time one America's murder capitals. Now New York has to cope with crime guns from states with weak laws and lax enforcement.

                      7x as many crime guns recovered in New York are traced to legal sales in other states, compared to 1x crime guns that are recovered elsewhere that originated in New York state. So despite a 7:1 imbalance because other states fail to reign in gun trafficking, New York's gun homicide rate is half the national average.

                      Again that meme that it's an "urban people" problem fails.

                      The idea that urban governments fail hard to hold onto if you attempt to explain reduced violence in New York.

                      E.g. In the 8 days after Katrina there was not a single murder, even though there was a lot of frustration and anger and fear, and some looting. Still want to blame New York "urban people" for failing to reduce violence in New York?

                      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                      by LilithGardener on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 11:46:37 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  It's a public health problem (4+ / 0-)

                  Just as success has many fathers, our failures have many fathers too. You know as well as anyone that a laws work together and may depend on each other. E.g. background checks don't work if states don't report data on prohibited persons. Purchase attempts by prohibited persons are rejected by NCIS, but aren't prosecuted because ATF doesn't have the budget. You know all that.

                  You know that access to healthcare is another set of laws that work together and intersect with gun law.

                  My opinion is that all firearms injuries count. It's a public health problem and what I like about looking at the raw CDC report is that you can see the major causes of death next to one another. (Excluding disease and illness).

                  This is the same link as above - the CDC Vital Statistics Report, finalized for 2008 data, and published in 2011. http://www.cdc.gov/...

                  In CO,
                  all alcohol related deaths are about 600 (rate = 13.7)
                  all drug related deaths are about 600 (rate = 14.7)
                  all firearm deaths are about 500 (rate 10.3)

                  In NY,
                  all alcohol related deaths are about 1200 (rate = 6.4)
                  all drug related deaths are about 1900 (rate = 9.6)
                  all firearm deaths are about 1000 (rate 4.9)

                  In CO, the per capita death rate from gun injury is about 10 gun deaths/100,000 people. But in NY, the per capita death rate is about half that; it's 5 gun deaths/100,000.  Knowing that gun laws in New York are much tighter than Colorado, it looks like New Yorkers have an easier time getting drugs and medicines at lethal doses than it is to use a gun. But the mortality rates are all much lower in NY than they are in CO. That may reflect better access to mental health services, or more successful interventions to save someone's life after they initiated a plan for self harm.

                  The RKBA group here has promoted a meme that accidents don't count, that suicides don't count, and that each law should be considered in isolation. I reject those memes. I've seen the age dependent suicide rates and they rise sharply for men around age 70. It's a dilemma. How do we respect the rights of people to choose their own demise?

                  But I reject your premise that it's just some old guy with a gun, and therefore there is nothing anyone should inquire  about it. Why are people in CO twice as suicidal as people in New York?

                  That's amazing CT to assert that the CDC is lying about the cause of death. It's dickish to assert that I'm presenting false arguments, just because you prefer to rely on wikipedia or other sources. Given your statements and hostile tone I  consider this conversation finished.

                  "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                  by LilithGardener on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 08:02:51 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You've got it wrong (0+ / 0-)

                    colorado homicides are about half that of New York. You folks are just too violent. Violence permeates your culture out there. You're always calling people mother fucker and shit.

                    Gun accidents are rarer than hens teeth, like 600 per year and falling. Probably New Yorkers who don't know how to handle guns because they've never seen one. But I'll tell you what, when you all do get your hands on a gun all you folks want to do is go shoot someone. What makes you folks so bloodthirsty?

                    You end the conversation because you've lost. Call me dickish b because I poke holes in your argument. It all comes down to don't use ginned up numbers to make your case.

                    “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

                    by ban nock on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 11:36:57 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Those "ginned up" numbers (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      tytalus

                      Are on p 97 of the CDC report of Vital Statistics.

                      There are some aspects I don't understand fully, such as what an "age adjusted rate" means. The technical notes are on p 111. http://www.cdc.gov/...
                      p 97

                      The population of NYC is about 8 million, the population of New York is about 20 miillion. From the WaPo link above about 17% of New York adults have one or more guns in the home. The population of Colorado is about 5 million. From the WaPo link above about 33% of Colorado adults have one or more guns in the home.

                      If it pleases you, feel free to keep on calling me a liar. But if you'll excuse me this mo'fo' a plane to catch.

                      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                      by LilithGardener on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 12:13:39 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                •  On firearm suicides & homicides (3+ / 0-)

                  I'm reposting my prior comment, which I post whenever people are willing to discuss suicide. Your accusations about me are simply not true. You present no sources to back up your assertions that the CDC report is incorrect.

                  What's the bottom line?
                  The cost of gun violence is born by those who survive, those who must pick up the pieces of shattered lives; that may be the person who survived a gunshot, or it may be those who survive the deceased.

                  In much of our discussion of firearm death, we speak of gunshot victims in terms of a binary function - did they die on the spot or did they survive. But that is only because the finality of death makes the reporting of it much more timely (usually). The authorities must be called. Next of kin must be notified. Someone must determine the probable cause of death. Accident? Suicide? Homicide?

                  Of course there are other factors that influence whether someone will survive a gunshot, such as access to state of the art medical care.

                  A few weeks ago the Washington Post published an analysis of firearm suicides, a topic that is difficult for many people to talk about, and compared their findings side by side with homicide data.

                  Gun deaths shaped by race in America
                  By Dan Keating, Updated: March 22, 2013

                  Gun deaths are shaped by race in America. Whites are far more likely to shoot themselves, and African Americans are far more likely to be shot by someone else.
                  Washington Post - Gun deaths shaped by race in America - Figure 1 (Image 2)
                  Washington Post - Gun deaths shaped by race in America - Figure 1
                  The article nails one of the most confounding features of suicide, an aspect that many people find hard to understand, unless they've experienced the dynamic of suicide up close and personal themselves, or with someone they know well.
                  The impulse to commit suicide has been described as a trance, and the speed and lethality of a gun make it harder to interrupt the trance. Attempts at suicide are more than 20 times as likely to be fatal when a gun is used.

                  (Harvard School of Public Health, Case Fatality Ratio by Method of Self-Harm, United States, 2001).

                  The article maps the origins of our national divide on gun safety and breaks out some key findings state-by-state, as gun deaths per 1 million people.
                  Washington Post - Gun deaths shaped by race in America - Figure 3 (Image 4)
                  Washington Post - Gun deaths shaped by race in America - Figure 3
                  "Gun deaths in urban areas are much more likely to be homicides, while suicide is far and away the dominant form of gun death in rural areas. States with the most guns per capita, such as Montana and Wyoming, have the highest suicide rates; states with low gun ownership rates, such as Massachusetts and New York, have far fewer suicides per capita."
                  For more detail, they created an interactive map, Gun suicide and homicide: statistics shaped by race. Note: All charts show age-adjusted rate per 1 million people unless noted.

                  The summary captures why it is so hard for us to reach agreement about new legislation.

                  Contrasting life experiences, whether from a family member’s suicide or the death of a relative in a homicide, drive the nation’s split over an essential element of the gun debate: Would fewer guns save lives? Survivors of homicide victims consistently tell pollsters that the answer is yes, but the response to suicide is different.
                  “We have less empathy with those who take their own lives,” said Sean Joe, an expert on suicide and violence at the University of Michigan. “So we don’t have the same national outcry. The key argument for me is that increased access to firearms increases suicide and homicide.”
                  Suicide frightens us. Sometimes, it makes us feel impotent, or guilty. We often wonder if there was some way we could have known, or something we could have done. Like homicide, the forward costs of attempted gun suicides are born by the survivors, who too often must also bear extra burdens of shame and regret.

                  "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                  by LilithGardener on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 09:07:55 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Interesting chart in that it shows Illinois is (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    LilithGardener

                    not one of the highest murder-by-gun rates in the country.  Based upon what we hear from Republicans, Illinois has the sky blacked out at times by all the lead flying around by murderers and wanna-be-murderers.

                    •  It used to be L.A. and NY (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      ColoTim

                      But now they can't explain NY anymore by the "urban gang" meme.

                      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                      by LilithGardener on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 11:48:04 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  When I started to get up to date on this issue (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      ColoTim

                      I gave some Kossacks the benefit of the doubt, because their statements seemed factual and their arguments seemed reasonable. But when I started to read original documents, such as from the CDC, the Harvard School of Public Health, UPenn's collaboration about the nexis of alcohol and firearms, and court opinions, I started asking for sources, for references.

                      Then I started to notice that some laws were differed from what some well intentioned posters had confidently asserted. Now I click through links and if no links are offered, I take it all with a grain of salt.

                      Disclaimer - I grew with guns. Was taught to shoot straight at the age of 10. My mom shot ground hogs in the garden from the kitchen window. That may sound strange, but that was just a routine part of rural life. I like to think she was a frontier woman protecting her vital food supply. I also shot at expert level in the military, and thought seriously about getting a permit when we were preparing to move to NYC.

                      To live on a tiny island with 3 million people? All dependent on public services? That was radical. But we decided not to, and have never regretted that decision.

                      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                      by LilithGardener on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 12:53:02 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Sorting out false memes (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      ColoTim

                      I'm trying to make sure my factual comments are backed up with the best data available. (without writing a dissertation).

                      Accidental shootings have been left out of the discussion almost entirely, 40% of which are committed by children and teens, often with guns that they can't legally own. (National Library of Medicine). The categories that some people don't want to deal with are self shootings when attempting to use a gun for self defense, and shootings by police. Even though currently legal, I see "I thought he was reaching for a gun" as another dimension of the public health problem.

                      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                      by LilithGardener on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 12:57:49 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  Living in a city without a gun - what's it like? (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      ColoTim

                      As I've stated above. I'm experienced with guns, more so than many others who advocate for expansion of RKBA. I strongly support the RKBA for self defense and other lawful purposes and I believe that Heller allows states wide latitude to set licensing, registration, and concealed carry laws to balance expression of the RKBA with local public safety needs.

                      Moving to NYC, this mo'fo' decided not to apply for a hangun permit and to take her chances on the mean streets unarmed.

                      Now, after having lived through various large power failures, 9/11, major power outage in 2004, Hurricanes Irene and Sandy, I can confidently say that most crimes are crimes of opportunity. The vast majority of criminals are neither suicidal nor mentally ill, and they strike when they have an easy target (e.g. someone distracted) and they have an easy get away.

                      One advantage NYC has whenever there is a crisis is that it's a group of islands. When traffic stops, when people's lives are disrupted such that they have nothing to do but sit still and complain, (and New Yorkers do take complaining to the level of an art form), that's a lot of bored eyeballs paying attention to whatever is going down. Since there is no where to go - they notice everything.I think that in those temporary circumstances crime opportunities drop rapidly, until some enterprising or desperate criminal gets the silly idea that they can go loot a pharmacy and get away with it.

                      They don't get away with it - in all of the crises, there are too many witnesses. And that is a fact, a weird and unusual benefit of living close together on a crowded island.

                      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                      by LilithGardener on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 01:04:31 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I spent nearly 2 years on Staten Island, so I (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        LilithGardener

                        have an idea of what you're talking about.  That was nearly 30 years ago, though.

                        •  People are shocked when I tell them that in (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          ColoTim

                          the 8 days after Sandy there was  not a single murder.

                          And it wasn't as if the city was on lock down either. We didn't have police every where, or National Guard here like we did after 9/11. It was just the fact that public transit wasn't working, so any escape route meant on foot.

                          "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                          by LilithGardener on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 02:18:09 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                  •  Resized figures for the suicide comment (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    tytalus

                    Gun deaths shaped by race in America
                    By Dan Keating, Updated: March 22, 2013

                    iv class="dkimg-c">Washington Post - Gun deaths shaped by race in America - Figure 1 (Image 2)

                    Washington Post - Gun deaths shaped by race in America - Figure 1
                    The article maps the origins of our national divide on gun safety and breaks out some key findings state-by-state, as gun deaths per 1 million people.
                    Washington Post - Gun deaths shaped by race in America - Figure 3 (Image 4)
                    Washington Post - Gun deaths shaped by race in America - Figure 3
                    For more detail, they created an interactive map, Gun suicide and homicide: statistics shaped by race. Note: All charts show age-adjusted rate per 1 million people unless noted.

                    "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                    by LilithGardener on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 01:09:29 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Sandy Hook was a suicide. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ColoTim, LilithGardener

              give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

              by 88kathy on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 11:25:55 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Murder suicide (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                88kathy

                When digging into the CDC report I was surprised how large the "undetermined" category is.

                So even separating out homicides and suicides leave a large number of firearm deaths, and we know how many are negligent shootings are classified as accidents. We are now aware of the growing number of SYG shootings, that are neither homicides, nor suicides, nor accidental.

                What are they? If you like the law you say the number of self defense killings is on the rise, crime must be rising, right?

                "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                by LilithGardener on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 01:14:14 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Columbine was a double suicide. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ColoTim, LilithGardener

              give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

              by 88kathy on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 11:26:43 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  No telling whether the Aurora Theater would have (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                88kathy, LilithGardener

                ended that way as well.  Holmes was surprised and arrested in the parking lot and we didn't get to see his end-game (thankfully).  We'll probably get our fill of it in the trial next Spring.

                •  Colorado is a state very dependent on tourism. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  LilithGardener

                  Soon the violence of the gun toters as those who came to the rescue of Psycho Gilberton Police Chief Mark Kessler will not be tolerated by the tourism industry.

                  As wild west as Colorado thinks it is, it is really only a dude ranch for rich people to have fun. Those same people can always go to Whistler, there's no homicidal maniacs with 2nd Amendment guns in Whistler.

                  give the NRA the Royal Flush join Stop The NRA

                  by 88kathy on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 11:42:07 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Fortunately I don't see too many people promoting (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    LilithGardener, 88kathy

                    Colorado as a place to come shoot off your guns in any way other than for hunting purposes.  There has been some reported retaliation for Colorado's stricter gun laws in that some television series promoting hunting was going to pull out, and various hunters claimed they were going to boycott Colorado over the new restrictions, but we don't need people who have to have magazines over fifteen shots in size going hunting anyway.  Besides, that's for new purchases, IIRC, so people with existing magazines will still be able to riddle an elk's corpse with 30-100 bullets.  

                    We'll see when hunting season starts if all the boycotts actually do happen.  Frankly, I believe it to all be hot air.

                    •  As I comment elsewhere - CO is right in the (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      ColoTim, 88kathy

                      middle of the nation on many measures.

                      I suspect that the vast majority of gun owners in CO are responsible people who just want to go about their lives, without yahoos messing up their town. They don't want to get accidentally shot at a gun show any more than anyone else.

                      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                      by LilithGardener on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 01:18:59 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  ^^^ Imagine what that does to a small business (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    88kathy

                    deciding whether to expand in Gilberton because it's close to the interstate highway, or whether expand somewhere else that is a little further away.

                    "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

                    by LilithGardener on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 01:16:02 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

    •  Bloomberg's the new All-Purpose Pelosi. (8+ / 0-)

      "If you mean time-traveling bunnies, then yes."

      by here4tehbeer on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 09:19:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think these are GOTV ads (4+ / 0-)

      the target audience hates libruls, hates "city-folk", and hates carpet baggers, but loves carpet bagger money when the  money is on their side.

      Bloomberg is an easy target to hate, even by those of us who live in NYC.

      But what gets lost when foes try to make him into a caricature is the simple facts of NYC's public safety record re guns, and getting guns off the streets, the size and complexity of NYC.

      At 8.2 million the population of NYC is larger than all but 11 states.

      The security challenges are diverse. E.g. when UN is in session, 193 nations have their delegates and/or heads of state in NYC, along with their entourages.

      E.g. NYC's high school students compete for entry into schools in any of the 5 boroughs, and they go to class every day on the subways and buses. A kid from Brooklyn might be going to school in the Bronx. None of those kids have cars, and the vast majority of them don't have guns.

      "They did not succeed in taking away our voice" - Angelique Kidjo - Opening the Lightning In a Bottle concert at Radio City Music Hall in New York City - 2003

      by LilithGardener on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 09:59:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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