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View Diary: While the N$A is all up in your Internet, the TSA is having your car searched at the airport (277 comments)

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  •  Electricity and hardware are not free (0+ / 0-)

    Everytime someone whines that they want faster internet for free, what they're really saying is this:

    They want slave labor Chineese to build them a server for free.
    They want US workers with no healthcare or pension to install and maintain that server for free.
    They want underpaid electic utility workers to generate and distribute electricity for free.
    They want other utility workers to maintain the data cables for free.
    And then they want to pretend that all of that power consumption magically does not produce any C02.

    If you want real people to give you real physical hardware and electricity, you have to pay for it!  No, you can't have an army of slaves just give it to you for free.

    •  Actually, sir (17+ / 0-)

      I'm unaware of people demanding it be "free of charge" and there is a large moment underway to make wages appropriate.

      The issue of "free" internet is of not being spied upon and hoovered 9 ways from Sunday on every keystroke or google search.

      Did you mean to post that in this thread?

      •  Yes, based on these comments of yours: (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        xxdr zombiexx, NoMoJoe
        Major corporations felt that the little people should be paying for this useful data access. After all, this is AMERICA! No free lunch. Pay as you go. You will not have anything if you do not somehow needlessly enrich somebody who's already filthy rich.

        But today’s Internet users pay just as Chester predicted.

        No free lunch and definately no free powerful flow of information.
        Imagine the profit to be had if we could somehow charge for evolution.

        This isn't asking for "free" internet in terms of not being spied on.  When you're talking in terms of payment, enriching people and profit, you are directly asking for internet access to be free, as in not having to pay any money for it.

        Now I don't like the big telcoms anymore than you do.  They probably are overcharging.  So if you want to discuss excessive profit, or a lack of market competition, etc, please go ahead.

        But someone has to pay the workers who provide a service, and that someone should be the people using the service.  Sorry, but the little people do have to pay to access the data, so that internet workers can feed their children.  It takes real effort to provide that service, it has a real cost.

        If I misunderstood your comments, then my apologies, but "free of charge" is how I took it.

        •  Well.. given they shotloads of wealth major (4+ / 0-)

          corps offshore, charging me $75/month for slack slow service isn't very good either.

          It's sort of like we can pay 12 - 15 as a minimum wage and the fat cats can still stay gorged.

          THe issue with interent is that it is technically possible for it to be largely free, financed by proper use of taxes.

          That is not to say I am whining about wanting shit for free - I don't do that, per se. (Never crosses my mind, really, so thus my perplexion)

          •  I'm naive. (9+ / 0-)

            I just think that if I pay over $150 for cable, broadband and phone, that information transmitted  should be between me and the cable provider.

            They charge me $1.50 per month to not be listed in directory assistance. It seems reasonable that in all that cash I send them each month, they can take a few dollars and pay an attorney to tell the government, "you don't have probable cause here, nor a warrant nor a subpoena. So no."

            © grover


            So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

            by grover on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 09:06:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  No, not "largely free". Roads are not free (0+ / 0-)

            When you drive down the street in your town, you don't pay for each individual use of the road.  But that doesn't make the road "largely free".

            When the road gets a pothole, the men who fill that pothole are paid by the property taxes of the town.  The taxes to fix the roads are assesed to everyone - rich homeowners and poorer apartment renters.  And what happens is that the poor who don't own cars and who don't drive, end up subsidizing the SUVs of the rich.

            Are you arguing for everyone in America to be assesed a tax for internet service, regardless of how much they use it?  So that poor people without computers end up paying for rich people watching You Tube all day long?

            Paying for use is a much more fair system.  And if the big telcoms are overcharging, it sounds like more competition is needed.  Why are you paying $75?  I pay $25 for decent cable internet, and Comcast isn't a charity.

            •  Well... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Norm in Chicago
              The taxes to fix the roads are assesed to everyone - rich homeowners and poorer apartment renters.  And what happens is that the poor who don't own cars and who don't drive, end up subsidizing the SUVs of the rich.
              Gas taxes largely pay for roadwork. States like CA and WA are finding this out big time because electric vehicles buy no gas but use the roads. So they're having roads budget shortfalls.

              SUVs use more gas, so they pay more tax. Poor people still normally use roads somehow, whether on bus, friend's car, shuttle,   sidewalks, etc. Right? Their mail is delivered align those same roads, and their meals and other supplies may be as well. It's very hard for an Amerucan citizen not not utilize roads at all.

              And even if they don't, they may have children that attend school, which ARE funded by property taxes. I use roads, but I have no kids.  I pay a ton of money in property tax. I don't begrudge schools money. I vote for levies and bonds. My property tax is used for schools, cops, firefighters, stuff I've really never used as an adult. And I wouldn't want it any other way.

              Also, my cable bill contains a lot of taxes, probably 15%-20% of it is taxes (I don't pay attention to the exact amount because 1. I'm not one of those people who obssess about the amount of tax I pay and 2. I can't change it.) but my water, gas, electric, garbage, and sewer bills also include taxes.

              The only "pure" (untaxed) bill I pay is my dog licenses. Well, thus far.

              If they added a small tax to pet licenses to enact universal access to Internet, I'd be all for it though. Citizens need the Internet to be connected and to be literate in the 21st century.

              I'd gladly pay for that. At least Id know where my money were going for a change.

              © grover


              So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

              by grover on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 09:49:53 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Long story short, Norm (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Norm in Chicago, solesse413

              NOBODY ever talks about making government work efficiently. Money is WASTED, WASTED , WASTED.

              We pay taxes for a ton of things, many of them now secret.

              Taxes are essentially "Condo Fees for Freedom" and yeah the way tech stuff works, 'wirelss intenet for all" can be had for an amazingly tiny price relative to the good it does.

              I just wasted a trip to the dentist. My fucking insurance wont pay for a crown - which I need to preserve my tooth, not to look swanky - costs SO MUCH I could fly to fucking Thailand and get it done for about $200 more (so I could eat while I wait).

              I don't mind, like anybody else, paying a reasonable fee: what I was bitching about is that America is now about fucking you blind. Drain your cash right out of your ass and give you crappy service in return, can't get shit fixed right, can't get 3 quotes for something that are similar.

              Life in America is TOO DAMN HARD relative to all the cheesy shit we're told about We're # 1.

              People shiuldn't have to work 2 jobs just to eat AND prepare for retirement - shit like that.

              We';re being fucked.

              Needlessly.

              Now I'm pissed off.

    •  Bullshit!!! n/t (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo, lostinamerica

      Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

      by reflectionsv37 on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 07:57:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  A modest suggestion (0+ / 0-)

        If you disagree, and feel that high speed internet access should be free, then it is your right as an American to try and do a better job.  You are free to start your own internet service and try and run the big telcoms out of business.

        If you can offer internet access for much less, or for free, then do it.  But you will have real bills.  You will have real hardware to buy, real physical floor space to rent or buy, real electricity to buy, and real workers who eat real food, who get real paychecks.

        The internet does not magically virtually appear without cost.  The best you can do is try and provide the service at minimal cost, as a non proffit.

        Best of luck!

        •  It's sad that as American's... (0+ / 0-)

          we've come to expect so little from our government that even the thought of the government providing universal access to the internet is a concept too absurd to even consider. The internet broadens people's horizons and helps to move everyone forward. Indonesia obviously understands this. It's my understanding that internet throughout the country is free and accessible to all.  It certainly is here in Kupang.

          Unfortunately, here in the US, corporate profits and the ability of someone to make money is more important that educating our own people. It's no wonder these other countries to continue to make gains while the US continues to decline.

          Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

          by reflectionsv37 on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 06:08:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Bull (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      burlydee, YucatanMan, JVolvo

      I pay a little over $80 a month for 10GB of internet per month, not including the cost of the modem, router, LTE signal amplifier, and yagi antenna.  The equipment supplied by Verizon was worthless junk.

      In what other country do citizens pay such outrageous sums for capped internet access?  10GB isn't much when you use the internet for work.  Don't even think about download pr0n, you will hit the cap in a couple weeks (or so I'm told).  Streaming TV shows or movies isn't even an option.

      "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

      by Subterranean on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 08:51:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You're being robbed, change companies (0+ / 0-)

        That's Verizon you're paying $80 a month to?  I hate to tell you, but you're being straight up robbed.  You're in a bad plan, at a minimum.  And maybe you should look at ditching Verizon.

        Comcast is by no means a great corporate "citizen", but I'm getting a much better deal than that.  I'm paying about $25-$30 per month, including the modem, for economy internet.  I have no data cap at all, use the internet to do high data engineering work from home, and my wife has been streaming Netflix without issue.

        So no, you shouldn't pay that much for capped internet, and there's a free market solution for that problem.

        •  There is no comcast out here! (0+ / 0-)

          I'm in rural MI, WTF else do you think I pay such exhorbitant rates?  I can use either Verizon or dial-up.  There are also the satellite companies which are even worse than Verizon.  

          "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

          by Subterranean on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 09:23:36 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Oh, and another thing, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            semiot

            The reason why nothing else is available out here is the Free Market.  Look up the rural electrification project, it's the reason rural areas got electricity, since they wouldn't have if it were up to the free market.  It's exactly the same thing with broadband.

            "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

            by Subterranean on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 09:26:30 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  nobody's asking for it to be free (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Cassandra Waites, semiot

      right now we get reamed on the price AND have the govt suck up all our data. Why I use the free WIFI in Times Square, I don't expect complete privacy but when I use my home network, I sure as hell do.

      Internet could easily be set up as a public utility now. There have been some moves toward municipal broadband but they have been fought vociferously by the telco and cable companies and groups like ALEC. Other countries, notably South Korea, treat it that way and their citizens pay low rates and have 100 times faster speeds than ours. Why can't we have that? Because private corporations suck it all up in profit.

      I saw you downthread talking about roads. Roads are part of the public commons and paid for by taxes of some type. I think the entire idea of a public commons has been warped by today's multinational corporations. If you'll forgive the DS9 metaphor, we're the Ferengi now, everything is for profit.

      "Watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, fanatical, criminal..."-7.75, -5.54

      by solesse413 on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 03:49:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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