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View Diary: Dream Defenders, Day 16: When "soft on crime" kills (49 comments)

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  •  Interesting (4+ / 0-)

    in that you provided the same link as LilithGardener, but with so much more preachy defense of the law.

    Hermits have no peer pressure. -- Steven Wright
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    by tytalus on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 03:08:33 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  It's preachy because it doesn't agree with your (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      johnny wurster

      position.

      I just happen to think that you are wrong and syg laws are a net benefit to the states that have them.

      just like I think that everyone capable of it, both mentally and physically, should carry while those who aren't should not.   I have watched as gun laws have been liberalized all across the country while at the same time violent crime rates have fallen like a stone.  

      I don't think that liberal carry laws are the reason or at least the whole reason, I think they do play a small part as does the removal of lead from gasoline and paint (major effect imo), reduction of FAS through better prenatal knowledge and care and hopefully better nutrition and parenting with the help of programs like WIC and Head Start.

      I'm a liberal, I believe in solving the underlying causes of violence, not restricting the weapon that is used in a violent encounter.  Pay people a decent wage, teach our children well,  repair the safety net, and end the damn drug war....those four things would end more violence than any other options imo.

      Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
      I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
      Emiliano Zapata

      by buddabelly on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 02:48:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Your 'net benefit' (3+ / 0-)

        calculates folks like Trayvon Martin as an acceptable loss, and while I'm sure you wish you could tie loose gun laws to less gun violence, that's the piece of data you have yet to supply.

        Hermits have no peer pressure. -- Steven Wright
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        by tytalus on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 07:15:49 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  while there is correlation on all the items I (0+ / 0-)

          mentioned, there's no proof of causation though the removal of aerosol lead is pretty close imo.

          One thing that I can say with a fair degree of certainty is that more guns in circulation does not lead to an increase in shootings....the stats do show that much.

          Personally I don't see us ever finding direct causation for anything as violence is such a varied and diverse problem with differing causes for every case.......We might get it narrowed to a few items but to get to a single source would require ignoring so many other possibilities.

          I still think the closest to a cure we will ever get is to fix as many of the underlying causes as we can using a liberal philosophy....Thus my support for ending the drug war, a decent wage for a days work,  good schooling, and repairing and expanding the safety net for those who need it....usually through no fault of their own...

          Yes unfortunately anything has a cost benefit analysis with it.   On the whole, even using the lowest estimates out there of defensive gun uses, there are 3 times as many defensive uses as there are people killed by firearms and if you remove suicide which imo you have to to get a realistic idea of the situation, it's 6 times.   If you include all gunshot wounds too, not just those killed the numbers are about even. Again that's with the absolute lowest number out there.....some surveys show considerably higher numbers of DGU's and I generally believe those in the middle ground but when even the lowest estimate shows that kind of ratio, I think it's fairly conclusive that there are more defensive uses than attacks.

          This link is to a website called No Nonsense Self Defense and it is a very good, very realistic, no nonsense look at what will happen in a self defense situation and why too many think they are defending when it's really a case of mutual combat...It's a large site with all kinds of good well sourced info for anyone.  It's about the farthest you can get from what some of these keyboard commandos claim to call and sometimes teach as "realistic" self defense and the site owners and I have the same philosophy.  My pistol is an absolute last resort after I have tried everything else including running the hell away, well hobbling away in my case....

          I and most others who carry do our damnedest to avoid any type of confrontation let alone one that might turn physical.  The absolute last thing I want is to have to use my pistol on anything but paper or steel.  However, once in a while there is no avoiding a conflict and sometimes de-escalation just doesn't work.  

          Take a link cruise through the site, I think you will enjoy it and it will give you a good idea of how many people who carry actually think and act/react...... much closer to reality than many out there.

           

          Vaya con Dios Don Alejo
          I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.
          Emiliano Zapata

          by buddabelly on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 04:17:52 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

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