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View Diary: Texas school textbook panel packed with Creationists. What could go wrong? (24 comments)

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  •  To believe in creationism you have to... (18+ / 0-)

    ...disbelieve almost all science.  From evolution, to big bang, from radioactive decay, to plate tectonics.  And you have to believe every single word of the King James bible no matter how many contradictions and no matter what consequences.

    The Creationism cult is a dangerous one.  Their cult leaders can sell them on anything.  They make Scientology look sane.

    How many are there? We have more of these sorts than any other country except Turkey.

    Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action.

    by Shockwave on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 02:36:49 PM PDT

    •  Speed of light, too. (13+ / 0-)

      Most people miss this one. The distance to other stars and galaxies can be measured pretty directly, by parallax and other methods. Turns out most of them are a lot more than 6,000 light years away.

      I suppose the Michelson-Morley experiment was designed by the devil to destroy the faith of many.  -sigh-

      Early to rise and early to bed Makes a man healthy, wealthy, and dead. --Not Benjamin Franklin

      by Boundegar on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 03:23:01 PM PDT

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      •  i was in a church school today. (4+ / 0-)

        had to go because of work. anyhow, painted with 16" high letters, not a poster but painted right on there was,
        "faith" = verb.

      •  Well, of course it was! (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Stwriley, Oh Mary Oh

        And Albert Einstein was at heart a god-fearing Creationist, dontcha know.  That was the true meaning of his giant General Relativity fudge-factor Λ.

        Texas is hell-bent on turning its children into absolutist evangelicals, with an added soupçon of uncritical thinking + ignorance.

        That is, if they don't fire all their teachers first.

        (-7.62,-7.33) Carbon footprint 11.3 metric tons. l'Enfer, c'est les autres.

        by argomd on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 05:35:53 PM PDT

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      •  My brother is an optics engineer and a creationist (2+ / 0-)
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        Oh Mary Oh, argomd

        He's bright and sensitive, but he just blows my mind with his denial of evolution gymnastics. If I wasn't already seriously heartbroken, it would have broken my heart by now.

        You can't make this stuff up.

        by David54 on Wed Jul 31, 2013 at 09:01:53 PM PDT

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        •  Geez! Really? (0+ / 0-)

          My cousin and I are the only Ph.D.s in the whole extended family, both physicists, and he's a quantum optics whiz.  We are the black sheep, for all the right reasons.  

          Don't tell anyone, particularly the Kentucky-leaning bulk of the family, but he and I are both atheists.

          Is it the "engineer" part that makes creationist-belief possible?  There were almost far more conservatives over on the engineering faculty than among us theoretical physics types.  Librul pinko commies, to a one.

          Very sorry to hear that you are seriously heartbroken.  Getting through each day can be very difficult, as I know you know, so I wish you relief.  I hope you see a path forward with a positive gradient in it.

          (-7.62,-7.33) Carbon footprint 11.3 metric tons. l'Enfer, c'est les autres.

          by argomd on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 11:17:53 AM PDT

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          •  I was born heartbroken. What I was referencing (1+ / 0-)
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            above, though, happened a while back and I deal with it ok. It's just part of life. As for my brother, I'm just seriously disappointed that there is this stupid barrier between us. He went through a rough period with a divorce and gaining custody of his kids, and his "born again" experience helped him through it. As a result, I guess he felt obligated to buy into the brainwashing, (even though he is still a Democrat, thank God, or whatever) and some of the groupthink. As a result, I''ve been treated somewhat shabbily because I won't drink the koolaid. He goes to great lengths to leverage doubt about details of the theory of evolution.
            As for me, I doubt the existence of God, (depending on how "God" is defined), but not because of the theory of evolution. It's possible for me to conceive of a God that operates through the mechanism of evolution and DNA biology. It's also possible for me to conceive of a "God" that is purely psychological in nature.
            I think what is going on is that so many of these evangelical believers experience so much doubt, which is just their rational minds working, so they externalize their doubt in all those "others" who represent a threat. As time goes on, this internal doubt is just going to increase which is going to create an ever more desperate radicalism in "belief" with a corresponding increasing radicalism in the religious right.

            You can't make this stuff up.

            by David54 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 12:22:22 PM PDT

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            •  Your insight seems spot-on. (1+ / 0-)
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              Of course, understanding as well as you do what drives so many fearful, anxious souls to drink that dangerous but strangely comforting Kool-aid -- that understanding doesn't take away the sorrow.  

              As an only, I can only try to imagine your pain of estrangement or separation from family.  Clearly it has sent you into careful reflection and an uncommonly successful attempt to empathize.

              But you are who you are, and you're no longer vulnerable to the Kool-aid of salvation.  Living with uncertainty and doubt -- not finding an artificial escape from it -- is the most human thing one can do, IMO.  Only then can one approach true empathy.

              I didn't lose god in science; I never had him/her, and so there was no barrier to the sanity and beauty of science.  In my later years, I've tried to reconstruct the path I took.  It began when I left the southern baptist church as a teenager, revolted by the horrific racism of my wealthy congregation in a deep southern town.  It was cemented as I enveloped the history of the Holocaust.  If there was a god, and if that god was good and had any say in the matter, the Holocaust would not have happened.

              That's the terrible, ultimate appeal of defining the "others" as a threat to overcome, as you say.

              Take care.  

              (-7.62,-7.33) Carbon footprint 11.3 metric tons. l'Enfer, c'est les autres.

              by argomd on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 01:58:03 PM PDT

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              •  I stopped going to church when I was 14. (1+ / 0-)
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                I had already spent a couple of years struggling to find a reason. However, I still considered myself a Christian, just one without a serious need for superstition and foolishness. Now I consider all discussions about religion to be political discussions, and its very rare that people actually have a real discussion about spirituality and life and the human condition in terms of religion.

                You can't make this stuff up.

                by David54 on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 07:21:27 PM PDT

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                •  True, that. (0+ / 0-)

                  If one accepts  that adhering to a fixed set of beliefs is easy.  Acting from conscience is all there is.  In the end, I am convinced that we are what we do, or don't do.

                  Which is why real discussions about spirituality are so rare, I guess.  So very few people have even had such discussions with themselves.

                  You came to your crossroads years earlier than I did, but those teen years, when we are faced with the often horrible paradoxes in the societies we're preparing to enter, are so very painful.  How do I reject the church my parents love so much without rejecting them?  How can I sit quietly listening to a sermon and look out the windows at a bleak slum ignored by all of us?  How can we claim to be peace-loving just as we send thousands of young men to die in a war we ourselves started?

                  Don't know if you've read him or seen his videos, but you might find some enlightenment in Chris Hedges.  You are who he speaks of when he describes "the courage to be vulnerable."

                  (-7.62,-7.33) Carbon footprint 11.3 metric tons. l'Enfer, c'est les autres.

                  by argomd on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 09:50:52 AM PDT

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