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View Diary: Oh my. Glennzilla pwns Toolbin again. Two nights in a row. (313 comments)

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  •  Me too, on MSNBC (15+ / 0-)

    I still watch Chris now and then as he tends to be the most sober and have the best guests, but I simply cannot abide self-described liberals defending such activities SOLELY because one of their heroes is doing it.

    And if I have to hear Rachel complain one more time about our not holding massive parades for "heroes" who although they didn't "mean" it, caused the deaths of untold numbers of innocent Iraqis and Afghans in the name of fake security, I'm going to lose it. She's dead wrong on that one. We should NOT be celebrating what we've done over there--and are still doing.

    "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

    by kovie on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 06:23:27 AM PDT

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    •  Hayes, not Matthews (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JekyllnHyde, DeadHead, Dumbo

      Although Tweety can be entertaining sometimes, if that's what you like.

      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

      by kovie on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 07:36:33 AM PDT

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    •  A variety of sources helps critical thinking (0+ / 0-)

      I don't spend much time obsessing over the fate of Snowden.  He made his own bed.  The NSA programs bother me.  I was bothered by them in 2006 and just as concerned now.  

      If you keep restricting your news sources to only those you agree with, you become just like the people caught in the endless feedback loop of the RW echo chamber.  I don't have to always nod my head in agreement with everything I read.  Knowing what the other side is saying is important.  Do you think Greenwald could debate Toobin at all if he had no idea what Toobin would be arguing?

      I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use -- Galileo Galilei

      by ccyd on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 09:14:19 AM PDT

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      •  Not sure what you're getting at (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DeadHead, Dallasdoc

        I don't listen to "news I agree with". I listen to news that's fact-based and substantive. Which excludes CNN and Fox. The fact that I disagree with, say, global warming deniers is not why I don't watch "news" programs that feature them. It's because they're LYING. I think you're confusing news--i.e. truthful, relevant facts--with opinion. In any case, RW opinions are so extreme and ludicrous these days, only an idiot takes them seriously.

        "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

        by kovie on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 09:32:49 AM PDT

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        •  Much of MSNBC is "opinion-based" (0+ / 0-)

          Every news source has a bias.  Whether it is a business bias, market bias, financial bias, or political bias.  CNN has it's share, but I think it is a stretch to say it is part of the RW echo chamber.  I guess my point is that if we listen to a very few sources, all with the same biases, we become as biased as the news source.  With a multiplicity of sources, the biases tend to cancel each other, and we are left with more of a reality-based understanding than if we restrict our consumption of news.  

          I don't pay any attention to Fox because everything they do is slanted, and unabashedly so.  I do look at the Wall Street Journal from time to time (but not the editorial page).  I read the Washington Post and NY Times (and their opinion pages).  I listen to NPR.  I read professional periodicals for my occupation.  I check out MSNBC on line.  And I follow links posted here.  I don't have cable, so it is relatively easy to avoid broadcast sources.  So as good as Maddow or Hayes are, I think the news they report is incomplete.

          I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use -- Galileo Galilei

          by ccyd on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 10:12:28 AM PDT

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          •  New is news--FACTS (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            DeadHead, Dallasdoc

            Everything else is interpretation and opinion. But that X happened in Y location isn't opinion. It's fact. What you do with it is up to you.

            "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

            by kovie on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 10:35:09 AM PDT

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            •  News is also analysis (0+ / 0-)

              Analysis is not "opinion."  Without some sort of analysis, how would we know what to get outraged by? (I say somewhat facetiously).

              I guess I would use this example:  The weather service reports objective facts, like what temperature it is, the air pressure, how hard and from what direction the wind is blowing, and whether it is sunny or cloudy.  That's all well and good, but I need the analysis to know whether to bring an umbrella to work or whether I need to buy salt for my driveway.

              I do not feel obligated to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use -- Galileo Galilei

              by ccyd on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 11:36:43 AM PDT

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              •  And analysis presupposes opinion (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                DeadHead, Dallasdoc

                There is no analysis without it. What differentiates good from bad analysis is the facts each relies on, and the quality of the opinions introduced.

                But I disagree about news being analysis. There is certainly bias in all news reporting, but it's not the same thing as analysis.

                "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

                by kovie on Thu Aug 01, 2013 at 12:12:40 PM PDT

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