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View Diary: 60 troops fired after military record checks turn up sexual assault, other convictions (183 comments)

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  •  nice distraction (0+ / 0-)

    But you actually make my point for me.  What McNamara did was use the power of the purse to keep mostly southern communities from discriminating against blacks.  It let (read REQUIRED) commanders designate as off limits businesses that discriminated against anyone.  This meant that white soldiers could not shop or rent from those businesses.  He couldnt force them to think right for moral reasons so he used his biggest stick - money - to make them at least ACT like they changed.  he used the economic power of the DoD to DRAG the south forward.

    Every military commander has the responsibility to oppose discriminatory practices affecting his men and their dependents and to foster equal opportunity for them, not only in areas under his immediate control, but also in nearby communities where they may live or gather in off-duty hours.
    More importantly it meant that racist leaders could not hide behind off post racism.  What they would do is hold a social function off post at a "whites only" cub/business and claim it was not their fault the black soldiers didnt attend (we are talking mostly officers here).  The Army was even more socially oriented then than it is now since only a small percentage of soldiers (Regular Army) made it a career.  Promotions and commands were "who you know" and if blacks were excluded from those social functions they were never going to advance.  

    No, Truman did not waive a magic wand in 1948 and solve every racial issue.  Units deployed to Korea as de facto "Black" or "White" units.  It takes time to build leaders and time to change attitudes.  But while the rest of the nation was DEBATING equality in the 60's the military was implementing it and using its economic muscle to make the civilian world follow their lead.  

    It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

    by ksuwildkat on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 09:36:16 AM PDT

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    •  You can try to claim credit for what you did not (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      say, you did say, it was you, wasn't it, who said:

      And lets be clear about something else - the military in general and the Army in particular has been FAR ahead of civilian society on minority rights.

      We were fully integrated in 1948 - 15 years before Dr. King had a Dream and 16 before the Civil Rights Act.  

      Now, I've made embarrassing misstatements over the years and perhaps you didn't mean to use the word "fully" or didn't mean to take the obnoxious know-it-all tone you did, but you did, and intellectual honesty requires that you acknowledge your boo boo, boo boo.    

      So, your word or words or McNamara's (much as he may be a Vietnam era war criminal), I'll take McNamara's that prove you're wrong.  

      Spin how you will, you still made the error in big bold non-erasable text, and uh, man up, because right now, you're just digging deeper and it may be time to stop with this thread on racism while you can, and go back to arguing about the military's record on providing a safe haven from sexual assault for women in the military.  

      "Out of Many, One Nation." This is the great promise of the United States of America -9.75 -6.87

      by Uncle Moji on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 10:43:49 AM PDT

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      •  Have it your way (0+ / 0-)

        Bottom line is that Turman - you know the President - ordered full integration.  McNamara's directive only provided a tool to punish off post facilities.  NOTHING about McNamara's directive changed, added to or otherwise modified integration of units.  

        It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

        by ksuwildkat on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 06:57:08 PM PDT

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        •  I take that as your apology (0+ / 0-)

          for misstating the truth, that despite your fulsome comment about "full integration" in 1948, yes, well, waaaaayyyy ahead of full integration elsewhere, you were wrong.  

          Really, you can say it, it's healthy to admit when you've made an error.  Intellectual honesty is nothing to be ashamed of.  

          Bottom line is that when you continue to argue these details rather than simply concede them and move on, you mire yourself in your own sh*t, and you look more like an ass than you could have by simply employing the commonly used "point taken" and gone on.

          The two free lessons you should learn here are:  

          1. It is statistically impossible for humans not to make mistakes, and being human ain't a bad thing.  

          2. Success (in life and in business and in argument) is not never making a mistake, but learning how to recover from them (not attempt to cover-up the error - have we learned nothing from Nixon & Clinton?) and then fix the damned problem.  

          Have an excellent day!

          "Out of Many, One Nation." This is the great promise of the United States of America -9.75 -6.87

          by Uncle Moji on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 05:14:25 AM PDT

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