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View Diary: Obama meets with key lawmakers on NSA revelations, vows reforms (144 comments)

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  •  I'm not really sure what you're talking about (0+ / 0-)

    regarding your getting accused of crap due to interpersonal warfare or whatever.

    As for being irritating to Reggid, that's an unpleasant side effect of prolonged exposure to his invective-laced talking points repeated over several diaries. He replied to my initial comment, asking me to prove all sorts of specific shit that I never even mentioned in the comment to which he replied, in the hopes of drawing me into some kind of protracted "gotcha" exchange. I know his MO by now, having seen it in action quite frequently over the last couple of weeks.

    So what you saw in my reply to him was my version of what you yourself just said to him:

    [...] Really, Reggid. Your request is absurd.

    Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us. ~ J. Garcia

    by DeadHead on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 11:13:21 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Please notice, still not one example of abuse (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cherish0708, jdsnebraska

      Four responses, not one bit of evidence of any actual abuse.

      Snowden hasn't given any.

      Greenwald hasn't given any.

      Greenwald, in fact, bends over backward very carefully to avoid saying that there's any actual abuse.

      And now legislators of both parties, despite demanding reforms, have acknowledged that there is no abuse, no warrantless spying on Americans.

      But you all just "know" the abuse is happening anyway.  It's everywhere!  All the time!  Aaaaaiiiiigh!

      So, please, I've been asking for weeks now -- you all keep claiming there's all this widespread abuse, when there is ZERO evidence of it, so it's time to put up or shut up:  Please provide evidence that these programs are being abused under Obama.

      'Cause frankly, after all this time, all these hysterical, sky-is-falling claims of abuse are sounding more and more like another Issa-style "scandal":  lots of wailing, nothing there.

      •  Really idiotic (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        mythatsme, DeadHead

        The whole thing is done in secret.  You must be dense.

        Republicans: Taking the country back ... to the 19th century

        by yet another liberal on Fri Aug 02, 2013 at 11:58:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Um, Snowden stole what -- 200,000 docs? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cherish0708, jdsnebraska

          100,000?  200,000?  Supposedly to show what?  How easy and common abuses are?  Yet he has shown us neither.  He stole hundreds of thousands of pages of documents to prove it, yet there is not one shred of evidence of any abuse.

          And now we have confirmation, even from the harshest legislative critics, those calling most loudly for reforms, that even they acknowledge that there is no abuse.

          Um, what does that tell you?  Wait, let me guess -- they're all part of the scam, man, and you just "know" the abuse happens, because it's like the NSA run amok, man, like totally!

          Amiright or amiright?

          •  No, you aren't right (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            You're an idiot and a troll.

            Republicans: Taking the country back ... to the 19th century

            by yet another liberal on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 12:23:12 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  So, then, how do you "know" all this abuse occurs? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              You just "know"?  A birdie told you?  Bush abused the programs, so Obama must be, too?  What?  How do you "know"?

              It's not a trick question.

              I'm not asking about wanting further oversight -- that's always a good thing, and Obama has called for it himself.

              I'm simply asking where you're getting your claim that the NSA is running wild and abusing the programs.

              •  It's easy to find news on it (0+ / 0-)

                You could try any newspaper.  Search online.

                Republicans: Taking the country back ... to the 19th century

                by yet another liberal on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 12:48:38 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  In other words, you have no basis for it (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  [Don't worry -- I already knew that.]

                  It's okay -- you can just admit that there is no evidence of any abuse

                  Oh, and you're welcome.

                  Have a good night.

                  •  If (0+ / 0-)

                    There was nothing, then why is Obama meeting with congressional leaders on it?

                    Riddle me that one, Reggid.

                    Republicans: Taking the country back ... to the 19th century

                    by yet another liberal on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 01:18:44 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Because even he wants reforms (0+ / 0-)

                      And did before anyone ever heard of Snowden.

                      Wanting reforms and no abuse are not mutually exclusive, you know.

                      Unless you think Snowden is a time traveller, so that he could go back in time and tell Obama what he was going to do, so that Obama could then give a major speech calling for reforms before anyone else ever heard of Snowden.

                      And now the bi-partisan intelligence committees have acknowledged that there is no  domestic spying program.

              •  William Binney,former NSA official who was (0+ / 0-)

                largely responsible for automating the agency's worldwide eavesdropping network, quit in protest when he saw the agency begin to collect data on Americas. It was a heads-up for what was to come.

                The potential for abuse is ripe. You would have to be a fool not to admit that.

                •  Um, yeah -- POTENTIAL (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  Maybe, could, potentially be "to come."  That's why Obama's DOJ has been doing compliance audits since day one.  That's why Obama has been calling for reforms before anyone ever even heard of Snowden.

                  The mere potential capability, if the programs were shifted from their intended use, and used illegally, and one could try to get around safeguards and get away with it, is not the same as easily and commonly abused, as the Greenwaldians scream.

                  It's the difference between the need for a calm, rational discussion and balanced reforms, on the one hand; and wailing, screeching, sky-is-falling hysteria on the other.

                  The former, of course, doesn't make as good an anti-Obama narrative.

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