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View Diary: Structural Stupidity on PBS, Debunked by Krugman and Baker (123 comments)

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  •  Krugman is partially wrong. (11+ / 0-)

    The problems are structural, not cyclical.  Something has radically changed in the world economy and, thereby, ours.

    You can't fix the US economy by stimulus alone.  That was actually proven and continues to be proved by TARP and the fact that it has only benefited the 1%.  Two factors are missed by Krugman: 1.  wealth disparity and 2. the outsourcing of jobs.  

    These are not American problems alone and can't be fixed by monetary policy alone.

    He who would trade liberty for security deserves great customer service.

    by Publius2008 on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 09:22:00 PM PDT

    •  All stimulus is not created equal. (31+ / 0-)

      You can shovel money in at the top, increasing liquidity and hope it generates jobs (instead of the massive corporate profits that we see). Or you can shovel money into the bottom and try to kickstart demand and boost the economy from the buyer's end.

      They haven't tried nearly enough of the latter to say that the problems are 'structural' instead of a cyclical lack of demand due to people not having money.

      •  Yes. (16+ / 0-)

        The corporatists perennially against higher minimum wages are basically shooting themselves down.

        If McD, for example, paid its workers a living wage...more of them could buy McD's food.

        Same for Burger King.

        Same for WalMart.

        It's the Ford effect: pay your workers enough to afford to buy your Model-T Fords.

        Paying more money to the employees means that there's more money rolling into YOUR corporate profits b/c everyone has a little more disposable cash.

        Being miserly with your paychecks means there's a LOT less disposable income...and what's left over ain't going to you, it's going to the Dollar Store. And your employees have all signed up for Food Stamps and other government benefits...b/c YOU ain't payin' a living wage.

        Which will raise your taxes, ultimately, unless you Tea-fucking-Baggers decide to let us all starve to death.

        Which is gonna mean even LESS profits for ya, ya mofos.

        Irony takes a worse beating from Republicans than Wile E. Coyote does from Acme. --Tara the Antisocial Social Worker

        by Youffraita on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 01:06:06 AM PDT

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        •  In truth, if McDonalds paid more, the workers (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          saluda

          stuck there would probably stop buying McDonalds food using their employee discount+EBT and instead go buy some groceries.

          For places like McDonalds and Wal-Mart, the sub-poverty wage has a "Company Store" effect.  People stuck working for them can't even afford to go across town to a place selling actual food, even if they could afford to buy it.

          Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

          by JesseCW on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 11:05:47 AM PDT

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          •  I don't know about elsewhere... (0+ / 0-)

            but here in PA, you can't use EBT for McDonalds food, or other restaurant food. You can buy a cold sandwich, but not hot food. Or hot coffee (cold bottled water and sodas are okay). So I don't think McDonalds franchises -- at least here -- are even set up to handle EBT.

            Irony takes a worse beating from Republicans than Wile E. Coyote does from Acme. --Tara the Antisocial Social Worker

            by Youffraita on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 11:53:20 PM PDT

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      •  I'm not sure how it can be called a cycle, (6+ / 0-)

        when Congress has been rationing the distribution of dollars for decades.
        One would have thought that liberating dollars from scarce metals would have revealed the true nature of currency as a symbol of value, rather than valuable in itself. Instead, fearing the loss of control, Congress and their henchmen on Wall Street set about reducing the availability of dollars artificially by jiggering the tax code to promote accumulation and hoarding by the ruling class. And the hoarding can take various forms. Individuals exchanging "great masters" or giant diamonds amongst themselves for cash effectively keeps the dollars out of the economy.
        Conspicuous consumption does not occur when nobody gets to look. The gilding of churches was more productive even though the process removed gold from the economy permanently.

        We organize governments to deliver services and prevent abuse.

        by hannah on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 03:55:03 AM PDT

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    •  Stimulus is fiscal, not monetary policy (15+ / 0-)

      And Krugman and the rest have been continually calling for both, on a short and long-term basis. Wrt stimulus spending, they've called for short-term stimulus to put money and demand back into the economy, and targeted long-term stimulus to fix our infrastructure and give us the fundamental basis for a strong 21st century economy that can sustain a recovery. None of them have called for just this or that. We need all of it.

      "Liberty without virtue would be no blessing to us" - Benjamin Rush, 1777

      by kovie on Sat Aug 03, 2013 at 10:51:43 PM PDT

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    •  Stop the hand waving (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BradyB

      The ARRA had 175 billion in infrastructure spending it created 4.2 million jobs, thats the perfect multiplier of 2.5.

      Both Krugman and Baker will tell you that in a downturn infrastructure gives you a multiplier of 2.5.

      The CBO & the San Fran Fed all agree on the numbers - do you need citations?

      Two factors are missed by Krugman: 1.  wealth disparity and 2. the outsourcing of jobs
      Thats an amazing claim.
      The above quote is so phreaking wrong, the only way you can provide quoted citations is to totally take things out of context.

      Neuovo Milton Friedman hand waving, please move along.

      .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

      by Roger Fox on Sun Aug 04, 2013 at 01:15:27 PM PDT

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