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View Diary: More Greenwald Exaggerations and "Truthiness" Exposed (146 comments)

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  •  And why does that MATTER? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    4kedtongue, DeadHead, poligirl
    •  Are you kidding? (0+ / 0-)

      It no longer matters whether a source can be relied on to be truthful?

      Does that mean that it's okay to cite bogus claims and fact free accusations because it suits some supposed greater good?

      Do you realize how bad this looks?

      Nothing human is alien to me.

      by WB Reeves on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 10:13:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No sir (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CenPhx

        In the big picture of released documents related to NSA spying that is now moving in Congress and has the potential to change our nation and the world....was does it fucking matter what the fuck Glenn Greenwald fucking says.

        Are the documents genuine? yes.

        Are they causing change? yes.

        Then who gives a flying fuck about Greenwald?

        •  That's a good point (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Stentorian Tone

          So if Greenwald's not important, I have to ask why so many people make a point of defending him? If his credibility is irrelevant, why help place him at the center of the debate?

          Nothing human is alien to me.

          by WB Reeves on Mon Aug 05, 2013 at 11:18:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Precisely because so many are attacking, lol! (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            WB Reeves, CenPhx

            He is placed at the center of debate by a certain faction so that they have something to attack.

            Which forces a defense.

            Which generates lots of conversation that is NOT about what the NSA is doing.

            And because it makes, by association the story 'wrong.'

            If Greenwald is wrong, the story is "wrong. "So they make it all about Greenwald. It changes perceptions and deflects blame and muddies the waters of public thought and debate.

            As I say above it is a pure Karl Rove playbook tactic

            •  I disagree (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Stentorian Tone

              The attacks on GG's credibility do not "force a defense" of GG's questionable tactics. That's a battle of choice. You don't have to defend GG's methods to point out that the criticisms of him are of secondary importance. In fact, choosing to do so implicitly validates the idea that GG's integrity is of central importance. Your own comment makes this clear.

              How about this: instead of playing into such flawed logic and putting ourselves in the position of defending the indefensible, we instead attack the underlying premise and refuse to buy into the whole process that you describe, rather than enabling it?

              Treating GG's character and actions as central even as we deny their importance is a incoherent and self defeating strategy. It's fighting on the opposition's terms, which is always a bad idea.

              Nothing human is alien to me.

              by WB Reeves on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 10:43:51 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I DON"T defend him (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                WB Reeves

                I defended him back when he was attacking Bush....with the same intensity as he is attacking the current admin, btw.

                I do strenuously object to "Democrats" using Rove's tactics against him and will object loudly. Especially against the 3 or 4 posters here like Reggid and WinSmith whose presence on the site is seemingly  single minded character assassination. Especially reggid who showed up out of nowhere with an obvious agenda and steadfast mission.

                THAT I will fight against...when I feel like it, lol, just on principle.

                But Greenwald can take care of himself, he enjoys it.

                •  Fair enough (0+ / 0-)

                  but I haven't seen any character assassination of GG, just some pretty acerbic criticism of his journalistic practice. Where his critics get out beyond the facts and venture into mind reading and speculation, they lose me.

                  Nothing human is alien to me.

                  by WB Reeves on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 03:48:14 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Post after post calling him a liar (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    WB Reeves

                    is not character assassination, lol?

                    And here is the dynamic again, lol. Now I want to defend him!

                    Ask yourself this, if he is such an egregious liar why doesn't the Administration...or even the MSM...call him out on it? As controversial as he is you would think Fox would have busted him last decade or MSNBC this decade.

                    But no it is little pissant ankle biters on blogs trying to smear him thinking that somehow that will make the NSA story go away.

                    And before you ask for a link, parent up to the comment I first responded to in this very thread, and then read the diary again.  If this isn't blatant politically motivated character assassination,, ala Rove, what is?

                    •  It's an argument with evidence (0+ / 0-)

                      It's only character assassination if the evidence presented is either false or presented in a misleading fashion. Are you claiming the the evidence presented is false or misleading? If so, it should be a simple matter for you to give some examples from the diary. Absent such refutation, the diary can't be accurately described as character assassination.

                      The only substantive questions here are whether the facts are as presented and do they support the diarist's conclusions, the rest is just noise.

                      Nothing human is alien to me.

                      by WB Reeves on Wed Aug 07, 2013 at 03:10:04 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Sigh (0+ / 0-)

                        Let's try another tack.

                        Does Greenwald have enemies in the govt and the media who would LOVE to destroy him?

                        •  Sure, your point? N/T (0+ / 0-)

                          Nothing human is alien to me.

                          by WB Reeves on Wed Aug 07, 2013 at 12:59:08 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Why haven't they? (0+ / 0-)

                            If this "lie" is so explosive and damaging why haven't THEY used it to destroy him?

                            If he is such a "proven liar" why don't his enemies call him that every time he raises his head?

                            If the info in this diary is so damning to Greenwalds credibility...why do legitimate news outlets still find him credible?

                          •  Starting with the last first (0+ / 0-)

                            Because he's news. The idea that attracting media attention is a mark of credibility is demonstrably false. By that standard you'd have to grant the Government equal credibility since it's spokespeople get as much media attention as GG.

                            If he is such a "proven liar" why don't his enemies call him that every time he raises his head?
                            I thought the argument here was that his enemies were branding him a liar, are you saying that's not so? In that case, what's the argument against discussing the question on it's merits?
                            If this "lie" is so explosive and damaging why haven't THEY used it to destroy him?
                            Again, I thought the whole argument was that they were using it to try and destroy him. If that's not the case, why is the accusation constantly hurled that anyone here who wants to discuss the question is aiding the enemy?

                            If the question of GG's journalistic credibility isn't being used as weapon against him, then there's absolutely no reason why the question can't be discussed and no excuse whatever for smearing those who wish to do so as secret supporters of NSA spying.

                             

                            Nothing human is alien to me.

                            by WB Reeves on Thu Aug 08, 2013 at 05:42:26 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

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