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  •  Just because they are trying to take advantage (6+ / 0-)

    of the situation doesn't mean the threat isnt real.  

    I don't think Bush and Cheney caused 9/11 but they certainly knew how to use it to get towards goals they had in mind. Same thing is playing out here. The threat isn't phony but people eager to change the conversation will use the threat towards their own ends.

    •  agreed (6+ / 0-)
      Critics of the NSA surveillance programs were measured in their responses. Senator Ron Wyden, the Oregon Democract who has been a longstanding voice against the bulk collection of phone records, said the latest threat was "serious".

      As a member of the Senate intelligence committee, Wyden receives classified briefings, but he added: "While I can't go into specific details, the vice chairman of the Senate intelligence committee noted yesterday that this information was collected using section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, rather than the Patriot Act. I still haven't seen any evidence that the NSA's dragnet surveillance of Americans' phone records is providing any unique value to American counterterrorism efforts."

      http://www.theguardian.com/...

      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

      by Laurence Lewis on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 09:07:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's a strong statement. Obviously Wyden (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JesseCW, Laurence Lewis, poligirl, KenBee

        seems to be the staunchest defender of civil liberties in this area. But he might have been misled.

        •  he knows what he's talking about (0+ / 0-)

          the key point is that the nsa domestic spying played no role in revealing this threat.

          The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

          by Laurence Lewis on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 10:21:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Again, you assert that as positive fact. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            poligirl

            I would only be willing to assert that that is what the government claims.  You obviously trust them more than I do.

            •  i don't trust THEM on this (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              lysias

              i trust wyden on this.

              The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

              by Laurence Lewis on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 10:36:01 AM PDT

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              •  but he's given that info from gov't. nt (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Timaeus

                "The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that speak it." ~George Orwell "When it is dark enough, you can see the stars." ~Charles Beard

                by poligirl on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 10:51:38 AM PDT

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                •  and he's savvy enough (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Calamity Jean, lysias

                  to ask the right questions of the right people.

                  the bottom line- as i keep pointing out- is that this warning did not come from the domestic spying. it in no way justifies the domestic spying.

                  The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                  by Laurence Lewis on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 10:57:22 AM PDT

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                  •  Sure, like the way he let Clapper lie to his (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    poligirl

                    face under oath.

                    1. You don't KNOW that there really was a warning.

                    2. If there was, you don't KNOW that it didn't involve domestic spying.

                    You may be right, but you have no basis for belief, except for statements coming from the same security apparatus that benefits from them.

                  •  listen - i am solidly in Wyden's corner... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Timaeus

                    but he gets told too and i think even he's admitted to being surprised by some of it in the past couple months.

                    he's not the one intercepting the communication.

                    i trust my mother, but even she's fallible fcol.

                    "The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that speak it." ~George Orwell "When it is dark enough, you can see the stars." ~Charles Beard

                    by poligirl on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 11:03:47 AM PDT

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                    •  heh (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      poligirl, KenBee

                      remember, he has access to everything, including the intel data itself.

                      i don't know that he's been surprised. congress, overall, was not told much at all about this, but wyden had been hinting at this for over two years, chafing against his security clearances. when the snowden story broke, udall said flat out that he's been trying for two years to warn people, without violating his own clearances.

                      The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

                      by Laurence Lewis on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 11:07:38 AM PDT

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                      •  yeah but known it all? are ya sure? is it (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        Timaeus

                        possible that perhaps some thigns are being played up quite a bit and Wyden wouldn't know?

                        kind of like they downplayed the "bin Laden determined to attack" memo?

                        he is being given intel by people who have a stake in the programs that are being debated.

                        i'm not saying Wyden is suspect or stupid or anything of the sort, just that i don't trust the people giving the info to him and i think they're also probably pretty accomplished liars as well.

                        "The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that speak it." ~George Orwell "When it is dark enough, you can see the stars." ~Charles Beard

                        by poligirl on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 11:52:40 AM PDT

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          •  Look at my state department quote above (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            KenBee, Timaeus

            There was no threat. Except the threat of the people of this country holding NSA accountable.

            •  biggest threat IMO is some american (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Horace Boothroyd III, Timaeus

              whether paid directly by DOD or privately say thru SAIC would blow something up just to justify this bullshit, this continuing payday.

              It's amazing to me that this hasn't happened yet, re: the FBI traps for a recent example, but in the past I wad there when they burned a BOA to discredit antiwar demonstraters. Documented and admitted.

              This machine kills Fascists.

              by KenBee on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 01:32:27 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Shall we review the list of Senators who (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Timaeus, poligirl, PhilJD

        said no one should take the trumped up case that Saddam was seeking nuclear weapons seriously?

        The list of senators who said, in 2002, that it was a transparently laughable claim?

        Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

        by JesseCW on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 10:20:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  so far (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TheMomCat, poligirl, KenBee

          even the administration isn't claiming that the "patriot" act revealed this threat. so far, the only people making the claim that yemen proves the need for the nsa domestic spying are people like chambliss and lindsey graham.

          The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

          by Laurence Lewis on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 10:23:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Wyden claiming the threat is "serious" mainly (0+ / 0-)

            means that Wyden wants to keep being seen as a "serious person".

            It's without probative value.

            Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

            by JesseCW on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 10:31:17 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  given his outspoken criticism (0+ / 0-)

              of the nsa spying, i think we can give him the benefit of the doubt. there are actual terrorist threats in the world, and it makes obvious sense that something could be developing as we near the 9/11 anniversary, and particularly in light of all the recent prison breaks.

              this yemen warning has nothing to do with the spying scandal, for those supporting the spying or those criticizing it.

              The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

              by Laurence Lewis on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 10:35:11 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  How do you know the "threat isn't phony"? (4+ / 0-)

      How is that any more rational and any more evidence- or reality-based than my opposite assumption?

      One has to dance around at times here because there are so many administration supporters and so many who are genuinely terrified about terrorism and so many who are quick to denounce as CT some things they disagree with.

      But the truth is, I think the alert is bullshit from top to bottom.  There is always some chance of terrorism, which is maintained at a boiling point by U.S. policy, especially the illegal drone programs.  But I don't believe the threat this week is really any higher than it was last week.  In other words, I think they're probably all lying, based on exaggerated "intelligence."

      And I resent being propagandized like that in support of policy that strips away constitutional rights.

      •  I think it's much more likely that it's massively (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Timaeus, poligirl, PhilJD

        overblown.

        After seeing the self congratulatory bullshit when the FBI saved the world by catching a mastermind who wanted to try to cut down the Brooklyn Bridge with a blowtorch, I'm prone to think they take complete kooks seriously whenever it suits their needs.

        Maybe a bunch of guys in Bahrain were caught on twitter imagining what it would be like if they had a dozen stealth bombers or some shit.  When they need a distraction, that instantly morphs into a "credible threat".

        Mr. Universe is a known degenerate Robotophile, and his sources include former Browncoat Traitors. What is their agenda in leaking top secret information about the Reavers and endangering us all?

        by JesseCW on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 10:22:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Ho Ho Ho (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Timaeus, Nada Lemming, poligirl

      And you still believe in the tooth fairy????

      Hi NSA. I am doing constitutionally protected stuff - like free speech. Too bad you are not!

      by glitterscale on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 09:13:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It wasn't JUST the White House (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Nada Lemming, Timaeus, poligirl

      that used 9/11 for their own ends.  We saw all kinds of things, large and small, justified "because 9/11".  Much of it at the pleasure of private enterprise that had no governmental connection whatsoever simply because they could.  And as along as they could wrap it in the cloak of 9/11, nobody raised much of an objection.

      Fear is not only expedient, it's profitable.

      I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

      by mojo11 on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 09:32:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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