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View Diary: The Downing Street Minutes may be old news (228 comments)

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  •  An instant Classic (4.00)
    Just wanted to add that I found a line from an essay by William Rivers Pitt that provides a great talking point for this topic:

    "The decision to make war at all costs, the decision to lie about the reasons for going to war, the massive trans-Atlantic effort to make an illegal act appear legal, and the astounding fact that more effort went into manufacturing a political pretext for invasion than went into planning for the invasion and aftermath, all of this led us into the horror-show that is this occupation."

    •  Another quotation ... (4.00)
      Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac.
                                          -- George Orwell


      Writing dialog George Lucas so terrible at is. --Yoda

      Visit The Next Hurrah

      by Meteor Blades on Fri Jun 17, 2005 at 11:37:59 PM PDT

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      •  'Nother one (4.00)
        I diaried it this a couple of days ago, but what the heck:

        "wars are not made by common folk, scratching for livings in the heat of day; they are made by demagogues infesting palaces.  It is not necessary for these demagogues to complete the sale of war before they send the goods home, as a storekeeper must complete the sale of, say a suit of clothes.  They send the goods home first, and then convince the customer that he wants them.  History teaches that this is always very easy, for a number of reasons.  One is that the very unpopularity of war makes people ready to believe, when they suddenly confront it, that it has been thrust upon them.  They can't imagine wanting it themselves; ergo, it must have been willed by the other fellow.  But why don't they blame their own demagogues?  Because their own demagogues have been pretending, all the while, to be trying to prevent it.

        . . .

        But the main reason why it is easy to sell war to peaceful people is that the demagogues who act as salesmen quickly acquire a monopoly of both public information and public instruction.  They pass laws penalizing anyone who ventures to call them to book, and in a little while no one does it any more.  . . . On the day war is declared the Espionage Act will come into effect, and all free discussion will cease.  No one will have access to the radio who is not approved by the White House, and no newspaper will be able to dissent without grave risk of denunciation and ruin.  Any argument against the war itself, and any criticism of the persons appointed to carry it on, will become aid and comfort to the enemy.  The war will not only become moral all over; it will become the touchstone and standard of morality.  This impeccability will extend at once to all acts and utterances of the Administration."

      •  Well, since we're quoting... (4.00)

        "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war."

        --Albert Einstein

        "We must make clear to the Germans that the wrong for which their leaders are on trial is not that they lost the war, but that they started it. And we must not allow ourselves to be drawn into a trial of the causes of the war, for our position is that no grievances or policies will justify resort to aggressive war.  It is utterly renounced and condemned as an instrument of policy."

        -- Samuel L. Jackson, U.S. Supreme Court Justice and America's senior representative at the 1945 Nuremberg war crimes trials, and the tribunal's chief prosecutor

        War is essentially an evil thing ... To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.

        -- Nuremberg International Military Tribunal

        Life is like this analogy...

        by shock on Sat Jun 18, 2005 at 12:02:28 AM PDT

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      •  quotable (none)
        War would end if the dead could return.  
        - Stanley Baldwin
    •  again, today i heard all the repugnuts (none)
      saying that the ONLY reason bush's numbers are in the toilet is they aren't effectively "getting their message to the people".

      p.r. - that is their defininition of how to "sell" the war...

      p.r. - the reason our economy is tanking is that the public isn't buying their hardsell...

      p.r. - if we only listen to their message, we'll SEE why we need to stay in iraq...

      right... maybe he should hire madison avenue for his cabinet.

      War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. Long Live Oceana!

      by edrie on Sat Jun 18, 2005 at 12:20:35 AM PDT

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      •  George can't FIX reality (none)
        and those boxes returing from Iraq at a rate of 2.08 per day ARE reality

        good PR doesn't hide dead bodies

      •  On the money about PR (4.00)
        It's always been about the sales pitch with these guys.  In an October, 2002 speech here in Cincinnati, Bush engaged in preemptive scare tactics, raising the specter of the 'mushroom cloud as smoking gun.' Yet in the subsequent meeting (12/02) with George 'Slam Dunk' Tenet to provide Bush with the WMD evidence, Bush responded to the thin case by saying (according to Woodward's book):

        `Nice try, but that isn't gonna sell Joe Public. That isn't gonna convince Joe Public.'

        So it wasn't about the strength of the evidence or any genuine threat to the country, it was only about selling it to Joe Public like it was just another product.  He was out there selling it before he even had all the information. A person of character or moral bearing of any sort would have put a stop to it then and there.  

        I've never understood why more people aren't bothered by such dishonest, dishonorable behavior.

        The colinb diary is a blogging tour de force! 4 and a rec--a real slam dunk.

        Blind faith in your leaders,or in anything, will get you killed. --Springsteen

        by gaff98 on Sat Jun 18, 2005 at 04:38:31 AM PDT

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