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View Diary: The Downing Street Minutes may be old news (228 comments)

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  •  I agree with some of what you said... (4.00)
    I agree that it is wrong to use soldiers' deaths for political or economical gain.  I also agree that war crimes are neither heroic or glamorous.  But that is basically where our agreement ends.  I strongly disagree with your characterazation of US soldiers.  You make it sound as if every soldier that joins is a stupid, uneducated kid who loves the idea of war, that is simply not the case.  You also assume that all of the soldiers in the army joined after the Iraq invasion, which is also not true.

    The majority of soldiers here joined before Iraq.  The younger soldiers, like myself, generally joined after 9/11.  Although it might have been a little naive of us to expect Bush to fight the people who actually attacked us, I don't believe it was stupid.  And yes, I do believe that it is honorable to fight and even die for your country.  Iraq is not that fight, but I'm already in the army so there's not much I can do until they let me go.  The older soldiers have generally been in the military for a long time, this is their career.  They and their families depend on the income, and they don't have a lot of marketable skills in the civilian sector.  Although they might have reenlisted after the Iraq invasion, they didn't do it for the war, they did it for their families.  There are definately a goodly number of soldiers who either support the war, or are to ignorant to care, but I wouldn't say that they are the majority.  They majority are people who had committed themselves to the military before the Iraq war even begun.

    The fact is that we, as a nation, need a military.  Because there are countries that hate us, it is important that we have a group of men who are willing to devote their lives to the military.  I'm not that man, I'm out in 2008, but I have some respect for the men and women who do make that choice.  I'm not going to debate with you about how honorable America's past wars have been; many of them have been dispicable.  But in the end, if we didn't have someone to stand up and fight for America, there wouldn't be much America to speak of.  I joined because I wanted to defend the US.  I wanted to fight for freedom and liberty and all of those other corny things that one fights for.  I'd still like to, it just seems that Bush has made that imposible and I'm not willing to stay in until we get this shit squared away.  

    Please don't insult the individuals who make it possible for you to insult them.  I can't stop you, I just don't think it's productive.  Instead, if I was you, I'd focus my attention on campaining for politicians who don't want to take advantage of them.  If it was me, I'd focus my attention on bringing down the man that makes it all possible, Bush, rather than some small town paper who may actually just be trying to justify why their son has died.  

    "I think war is a dangerous place." - George Bush

    by Nameless Soldier on Sat Jun 18, 2005 at 01:53:55 AM PDT

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    •  A soldier (none)
      is the one who used his body as a weapon of the war. Our young recruits are more victim than hero and I think it's partly guilt at knowing that they are cannon fodder that makes us describe them as "heros" whether they have, in fact, done anything heroic or not. Part of the whole problem is that our culture glorifies war. That is why it was easy for the administration to get believers for the lies.
    •  Amen (none)
      We need more like you.

      I can't explain myself...because I'm not myself, you see. - Alice

      by SisTwo on Sat Jun 18, 2005 at 07:12:48 AM PDT

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    •  The thing is (none)
      I don't really think you are fighting "for America"....

      You're fighting for Halliburton, Bechtel, KBR and others.

      If you were fighting the people who attacked us, you'd be in Saudi Arabia right now.

      Saudi Arabia owns 15% of the United States.  They basically own us along with China.

      No one really "makes it possible" for me to speak out against them.  I don't buy that "freedom isn't free" stuff.  It's a bunch of jingoistic hype IMO.

      Countries hate us because of our hegemony.  Look up Cheju or a number of other massacres in S. Korea, under US military watch.  Do Okinawans want us on their island do you figure?  No way.  "Remember the Maine" et al.  The greatest minds in America, guys like Twain, have been anti-war without fail.  

      If you were fighting for "America" then it would look like Iraq does.  As in, we've been invaded and are being occupied.

      And I'd be right alongside with you fighting, in that case.  I'm capable with firearms but there's no way I'll be hornswaggled into a "Bush" war like the one you are in.

      That said, keep your head down.  We're going to need liberals like you to come back and combat the growing feeling of "the liberals are losing the war for us."...

      "You can't awaken a man who pretends to be asleep."-Navajo saying.

      by quartzite on Sat Jun 18, 2005 at 08:48:17 AM PDT

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