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View Diary: Liberal Racism? Charlie Rangel was Wrong to Call the Tea Party a Bunch of "White Crackers" (228 comments)

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  •  Rangel's (11+ / 0-)

    comment did nothing to open a dialogue on race. He played right into most of the tea party members' sense of victimhood and now Rangel is the posterboy for what they are racist about.

    I used this site (Daily Kos) as an example in Ian's diary. If you want to derail a discussion here, what is the easiest way to do that?

    By name calling and labeling people. Rangel just got into a flame war with the right wingers and no one wins.

    •  you are assuming the white (6+ / 0-)

      right wants a dialogue or "conversation"

      •  No. I'm talking about a broader dialogue. (5+ / 0-)

        I couldn't care less if the racists on the right don't want a discussion, the attempt should be an appeal to everyone else. There are people out there with a wide array of ideas and opinions on race who don't want to be part of a flame war.

        Very similar to what happens at this site.  

        •  the racists on the left (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Richard Lyon

          don't want a discussion either if the repeated actions of the usual suspects on perpetual privilege apologist patrol are any indication...

          Fear doesn't just breed incomprehension. It also breeds a spiteful, resentful hate of anyone and everyone who is in any way different from you.

          by awesumtenor on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 01:20:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  This isn't about the flamewar trolls. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Ian Reifowitz

            And never was.

            •  Never said it was (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Ian Reifowitz, AoT, cotterperson

              but until the preponderance of the community rises as one to smackdown said trolls they will continue to exist...and persist...

              There are those on the left who do not want to have any discussion on the topic, period.

              There are others on the left who, while they don't agree with those who want to shut down all conversation entirely, are only willing to have discussion that is not framed or is not heading towards aspects with which they are not comfortable... so they will incline to give the aforementioned trolls cover if that will prevent their discomfort.

              Ian Reifowitz, IMO is in neither camp... but I think he would be the first to say there are aspects of this discussion where no amount of academic bona fides can trump the visceral experience of those who actually have lived it and the ripple effect in their lives because of it. Some of it only lives in those spaces and the stirring of it triggers pain in wounds long scarred over but yet unhealed...unhealed largely because it is the discussion of the matter...even in terms impolitic and impolite... that lances those wounds and allows that infection to be cast off and healing to truly begin.

              But, as always, YMMV.

              Fear doesn't just breed incomprehension. It also breeds a spiteful, resentful hate of anyone and everyone who is in any way different from you.

              by awesumtenor on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 01:51:37 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  some white people (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AoT, raptavio

          will be "offended" by the use of the term "crackers."  Other white people will cheer.

          The former defend white privilege, as in "that uppity n**  can't use that word about a white person, even a whacko white person."  

          The latter defend their privilege by redefining the "other" as the far right whackos and including Rangel as one who is "privileged" to use the term "cracker."  

          There are, of course, an infinite number of positions between those two extremes . . . but only one of the extremes is inherently racist.

          "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Goethe

          by jlynne on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 02:01:21 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  If you're standing on someone else's foot (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          AoT, a2nite

          and he says "Get off my foot, asshole" the proper response is to get off his foot, not stand there and complain that he's being rude.

          "Much of movement conservatism is a con and the base is the marks." -- Chris Hayes

          by raptavio on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 02:27:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  You're right there, Chauncey, but... (4+ / 0-)

        It's not about the right itself, it's about the fact that we (you, me, and the anti-racist community) is engaged in battle with those who practice white identity politics. We are fighting with them to win people over to each of our respective sides.

        Yoshimi's point, which I agree with (obviously), is that Rangel's comment makes it that much easier for the white identity or Tea Party (not that the two are completely one and the same, of course) movements to attract disgruntled whites. I doubt him saying it brought any new adherents to the anti-racist cause, and it made it just that much easier for the other side to attract new adherents (among the few in the middle paying attention to what Rangel said).

        Again, not a devastating blow to our side, but not "right" either, especially coming from a public figure with a national microphone.

        •  you know my position there, white folks can (5+ / 0-)

          do outreach with recovering white racists or those they think are moveable. black and brown folks have been way too accommodating and patient with white folks in mass.

          •  But why make it harder? (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Yoshimi, Neuroptimalian

            And why say it's "right" when someone makes it harder? That's my point.

            Not using a slur isn't "accomodating." It's how people should treat one another.

            •  got to make sure I/we don't hurt white peoples' (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:

              feelings. rule number for living and surviving in America as a black man. I wish that such courtesies were extended to people of color. White privilege is a sickness and a mania that so many live that they take it to be normal. The white racial frame is real.

              •  White privilege is normal (0+ / 0-)

                it is something that should be experienced by everyone.

                It is NOT normal to be stopped and frisked.  It is NOT normal to be driven from high school to jail.  It is NOT normal to be followed around stores.

                None of that is normal.

                Although I was born in the States I was raised overseas, and so what goes on in the States abhors me.  Some white behavior abhors me.  The fact that I cannot hang out with black people because of what their friends will say abhors me.  The fact I cannot drive through a black neighborhood because obviously I am only there to by drugs in NOT normal.  The fact I had a real estate lady told me she got an offer on my property but she won't accept it or else she'd never work in my neighborhood again is NOT normal.  The fact that when a check was stolen from my company and the bank cashed against their policies, that they came in and started to interview the black employees first is NOT normal (and I told them).

                The fact that I moved from a wonderfully accepting Jamaican neighborhood in London to a black neighborhood in NY where I was followed home every night being called Snow White because of how people had been treated by others is NOT normal.

                I would have some advice for you Chauncey.  Travel some.  Go far and wide and see how black people live around the world.

                It will show you what normal is, and that privilege is not a privilege, it is basic human dignity.

                I'm afraid you'll probably come back to this country even more pissed than you are now.  But knowledge often isn't pretty.

                But no one should have to put up with the shit that black people have to deal with in this country.

          •  thank god for the accommodation (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:

            or we'd never make progress.  Think of it as affirmative action.  ;)

            "None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Goethe

            by jlynne on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 02:02:34 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  You Can Also Get Into Flame Wars By Passing (0+ / 0-)

      their own policies for them.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Tue Aug 06, 2013 at 01:09:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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