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View Diary: Obama cancels Moscow summit with Putin, citing Snowden (178 comments)

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  •  I'm staying home and I'm keeping my baseball (5+ / 0-)

    with me.

    Fiat justitia ruat caelum "Let justice be done though the heavens fall."

    by bobdevo on Wed Aug 07, 2013 at 06:54:58 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Reminds me of Carter (0+ / 0-)

      Then again, Carter was standing FOR civil rights not AGAINST them.

      •  You mean the Olympic boycott? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bobdevo, greenbell, stevemb

        That was in response to Afghanistan, rather than human rights in general. (Too bad we didn't just let the Soviets have Afghanistan, in retrospect.)

        The grain embargo was a bigger mistake--it cost Carter dearly in the farm states.

        And God said, "Let there be light"; and with a Big Bang, there was light. And God said "Ow! Ow My eyes!" and in a flash God separated light from darkness. "Whew! Now that's better. Now where was I. Oh yea . . ."

        by Pale Jenova on Wed Aug 07, 2013 at 07:14:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  "Too bad we didn't just let the Soviets . . ." (5+ / 0-)

          Excellent point, and a true mental exercise.  In retrospect - just what were the Soviets trying to do in Afghanistan?  Aside from the propaganda of evil russkis killing the freedom fighters?

          Russia had a relationship with the Afghans going back to the 19th century, when Afghanistan was a pawn in Russo-Anglo conflict, e.g., Crimean War.

          The elected government of Afghanistan (admittedly a pro-Soviet one) asked the Soviets for assistance because they were having serious problems with Islamic fundamentalists - then called the Mujaheddin - precursors to the Taliban.  

          What was the Afghan government doing that pissed off the Islamists?  Well, they were educating women, for one thing.

          The Soviets came into Afghanistan for a couple of reasons - but the primary one is they wanted to stop the spread of Islamic fundamentalism into the Soviet Islamic republics that formed the southern boundary of the USSR.

          So the US gave guns and other support to the Mujaheddin and Osama bin Laden . . . and we kind of see where that got us.

          Fiat justitia ruat caelum "Let justice be done though the heavens fall."

          by bobdevo on Wed Aug 07, 2013 at 07:25:04 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That's not what happened. Soviets supported one (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            happymisanthropy

            of the factions of Afghani government in power struggle. They sent troops to Afghanistan to overthrow the guy they didn't like and the troops ended up staying. Initially it had nothing to do with Islamic fundamentalism and was mostly Cold War politics.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/...

            •  While I misspoke on the elected status (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              FG, stevemb

              of the government - the government formed after Daoud was deposed:

              implemented a socialist agenda. The PDPA, an advocate of equal rights for women, declared the equality of the sexes.[6] This angered conservatives who considered the move an attack on Islam . . . and made a number of statements on women's rights, declaring equality of the sexes and introduced women to political life. A prominent example was Anahita Ratebzad, who was a major Marxist leader and a member of the Revolutionary Council. Ratebzad wrote the famous May 28, 1978 New Kabul Times editorial, which declared: "Privileges which women, by right, must have are equal education, job security, health services, and free time to rear a healthy generation for building the future of the country ... Educating and enlightening women is now the subject of close government attention.
              Further , there is some evidence the coup was in fact a popular revolution:
              "At this time, the party member and trade union leader, Ahbar Hayber, was murdered. His funeral turned into a huge mass demonstration. Thousands of people poured into the streets. The demonstration was marked by speeches by leading members of the PDPA. Due to these speeches, the decision was taken to arrest six PDPA leaders, including Tarakki, Amin and Karmal. The government lived in fear. Tarakki was arrested on April 25 1978. Immediately afterwards, Amin was arrested. There existed a strong party organisation within the army under the direction of Amin. Before being taken to prison, Amin issued an order to this party organisation. The next morning, on April 27, the insurrection began. After 10 hours of fighting, the revolution ended in victory." "In January, 1978, another uprising broke out as thousands of Afghans demanded the release of the jailed PDPA members. The police were unable to put down the rebellion, and the army was called in to smash it instead. "PDPA members in the military, with the support of tens of thousands of others, began an uprising against the Daoud government on April 27, 1978. "Two days later, hundreds of thousands of Afghans marched through the streets waving red flags and celebrating the victory of the Saur Revolution."
              While the West may have regarded the Soviet's Afghan misadventure as pure Cold War Realpolitik, the Soviet's fears about Islamic fundamentalism have proven to be legitimate, see also 9/11.

              Fiat justitia ruat caelum "Let justice be done though the heavens fall."

              by bobdevo on Wed Aug 07, 2013 at 08:35:36 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Saur Revolution was a military coup (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                bobdevo

                with significant popular support but Soviets were not directly involved in it. I meant the overthrow of Amin that was conducted by Soviet troops. Certainly, PDPA regime was very secular and there was resistance to it b/c of it. But  resistance to secular government didn't become associated with Islamic fundamentalism right away. Initially the resistance was primarily based on nationalism.

        •  It still costs Democrats in farm states (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bobdevo, Pale Jenova
          •  That it does :( --nt (0+ / 0-)

            And God said, "Let there be light"; and with a Big Bang, there was light. And God said "Ow! Ow My eyes!" and in a flash God separated light from darkness. "Whew! Now that's better. Now where was I. Oh yea . . ."

            by Pale Jenova on Thu Aug 08, 2013 at 07:41:46 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

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