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View Diary: New front for GOP in Obamacare: War on Churches (97 comments)

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  •  Because the power to tax is the power (5+ / 0-)

    to destroy - and there are a few centuries of experience as to why the state having the power to destroy churches is non-good.

    Secondly, not all churches are organized in the same way as Christian churches, with buildings and paid clergy and so on. It would get into some interesting First Amendment issues if some churches had to pay taxes on their way of conducting themselves while others did not.

    Thirdly, are you honestly suggesting that a citizen who pays no taxes should have no right to participate in the exchanges? If not, how does the tax exempt status of churches matter?

    Fourthly, as pointed out, this issue is insuring the employees of the church, who do pay taxes on their income. Why should these employees be negatively impacted because their employer is tax-exempt?

    It appears to me that you dislike organized religion. That is your business, but pretending that the GOP is doing anything other than acting like sadists here just puts you in their shoes.

    They hate Obama so much that they'll screw church employees to sabotage Obamacare.

    You hate organized religion so much that you'll screw church employees to show your dislike for their employers.

    Please, Roadbed, don't act like a Republican Congressman. Your immortal soul is at stake ;-p

    Economics is a social *science*. Can we base future economic decisions on math?

    by blue aardvark on Wed Aug 07, 2013 at 02:33:44 PM PDT

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    •  I just fundamentally disagree (0+ / 0-)

      if churches wish to not be under the oversight of the "state" - they should pay their fair share.

      Otherwise - under their current tax exempt status - they should expect (and rightly so) onerous oversight from the state that grants them special favors.  Perhaps similar to MLB and their antitrust exemption - i.e., they get special favors from the government but in return are subject shit that other professional sports don't have to deal with (e.g., freedom to move franchises around the country at the drop of a hat, etc).

      I don't see why you (generically - nothing personal) don't get the "fair is fair" concept in that if an entity gets special treatment from the government, in return it should be held to a higher degree of scrutiny and oversight.

      •  And that is impossible so you are screwed (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Roadbed Guy

        Once you start paying taxes you are automatically under the oversight of the taxer - or have you never heard of the IRS?

        Economics is a social *science*. Can we base future economic decisions on math?

        by blue aardvark on Wed Aug 07, 2013 at 02:56:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  So the bottom line for you is that (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Smirking Chupacabra

          religions - who feed massively at the public teat - should have no oversight by * anybody * ?

          Essentially, that's the mainstream POV in this country.

          I personally find it to be nauseating, however.

          •  So the bottom line is that I don't see (0+ / 0-)

            "not paying taxes" as "feeding".

            Aside from roads to their buildings, what does the state do for churches?

            Economics is a social *science*. Can we base future economic decisions on math?

            by blue aardvark on Thu Aug 08, 2013 at 06:09:09 AM PDT

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            •  We seem to be moving into Monty Python (0+ / 0-)

              territory here - but first, I suppose I could apply that logic to myself and my house and ask "other than the road to my house, what does that state do for me?" (so why the fuck should * I * have to pay property tax?)

              now to the fun stuff:

              Reg: They've bled us white, the bastards. They've taken everything we had, not just from us, from our fathers and from our fathers' fathers.

              Stan: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers.

              Reg: Yes.

              Stan: And from our fathers' fathers' fathers' fathers.

              Reg: All right, Stan. Don't labour the point. And what have they ever given us in return?

              Xerxes: The aqueduct.

              Reg: Oh yeah, yeah they gave us that. Yeah. That's true.

              Masked Activist: And the sanitation!

              Stan: Oh yes... sanitation, Reg, you remember what the city used to be like.

              Reg: All right, I'll grant you that the aqueduct and the sanitation are two things that the Romans have done...

              Matthias: And the roads...

              Reg: (sharply) Well yes obviously the roads... the roads go without saying. But apart from the aqueduct, the sanitation and the roads...

              Another Masked Activist: Irrigation...

              Other Masked Voices: Medicine... Education... Health...

              Reg: Yes... all right, fair enough...

              Activist Near Front: And the wine...

              Omnes: Oh yes! True!

              Francis: Yeah. That's something we'd really miss if the

              Romans left, Reg.

              Masked Activist at Back: Public baths!

              Stan: And it's safe to walk in the streets at night now.

              Francis: Yes, they certainly know how to keep order... (general nodding)... let's face it, they're the only ones who could in a place like this.

              (more general murmurs of agreement)

              Reg: All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?

              Xerxes: Brought peace!

              Reg: (very angry, he's not having a good meeting at all) What!? Oh... (scornfully) Peace, yes... shut up!

    •  I might add, somebody mentioned higher (0+ / 0-)

      education as also enjoying tax exempt status (which I disagree with , btw) but at least in that case, the entities involved ARE subject to considerable government regulation and oversight.  stifling regulation and oversight some might even argue . ..

    •  What does ;-p mean? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Roadbed Guy

      Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity -- George Carlin

      by ZedMont on Wed Aug 07, 2013 at 03:15:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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