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View Diary: Administration Attempt to Manage Fallout Over the NSA Review Panel (286 comments)

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  •  To have Clapper be the first name (14+ / 0-)

    associated seems to be foolish beyond belief.

    Who is advising Obama at this point? I know he isn't this foolish.

    If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

    by AoT on Tue Aug 13, 2013 at 03:51:27 PM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  Perhaps Clapper is being a little proactive here (5+ / 0-)

      which would be a sign of desperation? If so, good!

      Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

      by Simplify on Tue Aug 13, 2013 at 03:59:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I don't think this is "bad" messaging at all. (17+ / 0-)

      I think the in-your-face nature of Clapper's role in this "independent" investigation is a central part of the true message.

      When you triangulate everything, you can't even roll downhill...

      by PhilJD on Tue Aug 13, 2013 at 04:22:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Or they are expecting (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AoT, ActivistGuy, CroneWit

        a Clapper resignation. Handing this off to a new "untainted" DNI. What,youse lousy leftists have a problem with the tough but fair,wise,bipartisan,former general & apolitical patriot Mr. Cincinnatus Halobumbum,too!!??!

        "George RR Martin is not your bitch" ~~ Neil Gaiman

        by tardis10 on Tue Aug 13, 2013 at 05:05:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Ooo! You just added a third choice (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cosette, tardis10

          to my Machiavellian Scenario list, posted here!

          Scenario 3:  
          Playing elebenty-dimensional chess, the 8/12 memos are produced at Obama's instruction and released to the press; as planned, a huge public outcry ensues.  Obama instructs that an 'explanation' be released on 8/13, leading some to question whether Clapper planted the 8/12 memos.  This suspicion leads Obama to regretfully concludes that Clapper's continued presence would be a distraction and requests his resignation.

      •  the smartest guy in the room turns out to (10+ / 0-)

        have outsmarted the progressive community.

        i mean seriously. what are we discussing here? we're still surprised by Obama and his administration? is that it? we can't quite understand what is happening?

        perhaps Mr. Obama is more than smart... he seems to have the ability to mesmerize us.

        we keep holding onto what he said and too many refuse to look at what he's done.

        i, for one, find it exhausting. we need to get busy finding ways to stop the federal gov't and corporatists from undoing our world.

        “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” Buckminster Fuller

        by pfiore8 on Tue Aug 13, 2013 at 05:47:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  IRV - Instant Runoff Voting - it's actionable (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cdreid, CroneWit, pfiore8

          it's possible, and it's highly disruptive.

          This here, is a 1 finger salute to the Left and to the Libertarians and small C conservatives on the Right.

          That's a pretty significant chunk of disillusioned voters. Add in the non-voters who would participate if it wasn't a contest between the lesser of 2 corporate sponsored evils, and some of the fed up Party Faithful  and I think you have a staunch majority for IRV.

          IRV makes it impossible to game. Right now the Establishment have to manufacture and manage 2 PR campaigns chock full of aggressive framing against 1 other point of view and the corporate media have to spin it to a sponsor friendly finish.

          It's rather easy, I would imagine.

          But if it were 8 or 10 candidates, with a massive plurality, and the IRV ranking system to contend with...

          When that surefire, binary choice between 2 friendly PR firms turns into 8 campaigns 4 of which are not status-quo corporate friendly - the situation changes. It becomes far too complex to control.

          It's the difference between working a reactive dog in HUGE room with 1 dog and 1 door and working a reactive dog in a small room with 3 dogs and 4 doors.

          One is a piece of cake - boom pow, finished. The other can be handled, perhaps, if I'm lucky, with the right dog, with the proper reinforcement, etc.

          I think IRV is a very subversive and disruptive tactic, and should be part of a strategy for the restoration of self governance.

          Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

          by k9disc on Tue Aug 13, 2013 at 06:42:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'd love IRV (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            pfiore8

            But it's not possible.  It would require legislation to pass, which means that we'd have to convince congress and the senate to pass it ... like that's going to freaking happen, for just the reasons that IRV is a good idea.

            •  Yea but it's a pincered spot. Captured between (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              pfiore8

              the poles of the party and suspect to siphoning off of the Party Faithful. Everyone wants to vote their conscience and have their values represented. The hardliners would be hard pressed to go against the swing voters and the Base.

              Democracy - 1 person 1 vote. Free Markets - More dollars more power.

              by k9disc on Wed Aug 14, 2013 at 12:50:14 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Who cares about the swing voters and the base? (0+ / 0-)

                ...At least, past the first election?  After all, they're not the ones funding your campaign and promising you a multimillion dollar job as a lobbyist once you retire.

                ...I wish that was snark, but if it was, we'd have legal medical and recreational marijuana use, the whole 'gay marriage' debate wouldn't still be a thing, and doing anything but making Social Security better wouldn't be on the damned table for anyone.

        •  not me. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          pfiore8

          I do not refuse to see what he has done.
          Since the FISA, P.O betrayals to the tax cuts, keeping working with the thugs after they said they want him to be a one termer.
          To Gitmo, Bagram, kill lists, murdering innocent civilians.
          Drone 8 or more countries along with the CIA, JSOC playing their hideous games in how many countries?  
          The TPP, and extending all the ACTS. That Bush put on place.
          Especially the NDAA.
          And then his cabinet picks.
          Not going after the banks or torturers.
          His war on whistleblowers.
          Bradley Manning.
          And many other things.
           I see him for what he is and who he represents.
          It isn't us.
          Too bad candidate Obama isn't the president b
          I really liked thst guy.

          Passing a law that the Constitution doesn't allow does not negate the Constitution, it negates the law that was passed. Secret courts can't make up secret laws. SORRY FOR THE TYPOS :)

          by snoopydawg on Wed Aug 14, 2013 at 12:07:24 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Fits neatly (9+ / 0-)

        with Kelly, Summers, Brennan and Comey.  In the name of sacred "pragmatism" of course.  Am I the only one that's noticed that in the past 20 years, there has not been a single substantive issue where the corporate interest and the alleged "pragmatic" position have differed in any way whatsoever?  Is corporatism ALWAYS the most truly pragmatic course available as our political class and ruling parties have insisted for two decades?  That's what we're being told, and shown.  People, we've been doing this long enough that you can gauge the "pragmatism" by its results.  How's all this "pragmatism" working out for you?

        Clap On, Clap Off, The Clapper!

        by ActivistGuy on Tue Aug 13, 2013 at 06:34:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  How do you know? n/t (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      blueoasis
      •  Because no one is that foolish (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PhilJD, Jackson L Haveck, snoopydawg

        There's no way someone who won a damn election for president could make this kind of stupid mistake. Appointing the guy who lied to congress to head an investigation, seriously?

        If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

        by AoT on Tue Aug 13, 2013 at 04:48:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, there's a way. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          inclusiveheart, blueoasis, greenbell

          the extreme entitlement that the Presidency affords, also affords him the ability to be numb on regular logic.

          Obama has proven this time and again, as have his predecessors.

          •  There's a huge difference between stupid (0+ / 0-)

            and insulated. That's why I mentioned his shitty advisers in my first comment there.

            If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

            by AoT on Tue Aug 13, 2013 at 04:56:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I know a lot of incredibly smart people (8+ / 0-)

              who are insulated to the point where their smarts are not particularly valuable in assessing a situation.

              But that doesn't mean that they get some sort of free pass for poor decisions based on their ignorance.

              The President is one of the most powerful men in the world right now.  He took on a powerful responsibility.  It is up to him to demand accountability and truthful information.  That's the structural part of his responsibility.  The "smart" part has a lot to do with critical thinking and questioning what is fed to him by advisors.

              He said he was Lincoln and that he was going to access opposing views in his Administration.  He really has not done that at all.

              He has a team with which he has allied.  That's not about being smart as much as it it about patronage and loyalty regardless of the wisdom of affording either to those whom he has pledged allegiance.

              I am not sure that I think that that is "smart".  YMMV

              •  I'm of the opinion that the President of the US (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Just Bob, lotlizard

                whoever it may be at any given time is actually far less knowledgeable about the real state of the world. The clouding of the truth through the various intelligence agencies makes anyone ignorant because there's simply no way to know whether it's true or not except some sort of vetting system that one can never know the validity of. We talk about conspiracy theories here some times, but basically, being the president means that you are constantly fed conspiracy theories about a million different countries. The more secret information we process the less safe we are because the less accurate picture of the world we have.

                If debt were a moral issue then, lacking morals, corporations could never be in debt.

                by AoT on Tue Aug 13, 2013 at 05:21:11 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I agree that their world is largely (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  AoT, BlueDragon, Just Bob

                  filtered through a lot of people with various and sundry agendae, but as you have asserted, this one is supposedly "smart".  I think that he is smart, but as we know being smart in one way is not necessarily transferrable to being smart in other ways.

                  Honestly, given the history of leadership for all mankind, it is not really "smart" in my book not to be able to understand and assimilate Machiavelli, Caesar, Caligula, Napoleon, George Washington, the Founding Fathers, King George (numeral escapes me but of the 1700s), Queen Elizabeth I, LBJ, Kennedy, Hoover, Buchanan (who was one of my relatives, apparently), et al no matter what wild tales people are telling a person about how everything "now" is so incredibly "different".  It is the same old story with the same old pitfalls for most leaders.  The smart ones avoid the pitfalls where and when they can.

            •  He's neither stupid nor insulated. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Sunspots, snoopydawg

              He's telling the nation to f*** itself.  Why?  Because he can, and because he can get away with it.

              Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

              by corvo on Tue Aug 13, 2013 at 07:12:13 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Arrogant would be a better word (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ActivistGuy, cdreid, corvo, Sunspots, maryabein

      Daddy doesn't like it when the kids talk back.  Father knows best.  

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