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View Diary: Was criticism of Obama's directive on NSA review group justified? (272 comments)

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  •  Great diary (9+ / 0-)

    Thank you for a thoughtful discussion using linked pertinent documents. We need more diaries like this around here.

    I wish, wish, wish that Clapper would be investigated for contempt of Congress. People keep asking what crimes Snowden has blown the whistle on -- how about this one: the Director of National Intelligence openly lied to Congress about the extent of NSA surveillance on Americans.

    "As the madmen play on words, and make us all dance to their song / to the tune of starving millions, to make a better kind of gun..." -- Iron Maiden

    by Lost Left Coaster on Wed Aug 14, 2013 at 06:15:05 PM PDT

    •  I keep asking this question... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      ...and nobody seems to want to answer: what would Clapper's motive for "lying" to Congress in regards to Wyden's question have been when Congress (and Wyden) already knew that the Patriot Act allowed the NSA to technically collect domestic internet data in it's database?

      •  Don't put lying in quotes. The man actually (7+ / 0-)

        admitted that he gave the "least untruthful" answers he could to congress. His words.

        One failed attempt at a shoe bomb and we all take off our shoes at the airport. Thirty-one school shootings since Columbine and no change in our regulation of guns. --- John Oliver

        by voroki on Wed Aug 14, 2013 at 06:37:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  You assume that Congress knows (7+ / 0-)

        what the secret interpretation is. A Wyden staffer says most don't know, and anyway, if they did they wouldn't be permitted to discuss it on the floor. In our Democracy. Congress, not allowed.

        How can you raise an objection in opposition to something when you're told you can't speak about it; nor do you know who else knows or doesn't know about it?

        “Congress and the public are prevented from having an informed, open debate on the Patriot Act because the official meaning of the law itself is secret,” Hoelzer wrote, quoting from a 2009 Huffington Post piece co-written by Wyden and Sen. Mark Udall, How Can Congress Debate a Secret Law? “Most members of Congress have not even seen the secret legal interpretations that the executive branch is currently relying on and do not have any staff who are cleared to read them. Even if these members come down to the Intelligence Committee and read these interpretations themselves, they cannot openly debate them on the floor without violating classification rules.”

        PS: Clapper already apologized for giving the "least untruthful" (his phrase) answer to Congress, so the quotes you put around lying are inappropriate. Some eight-year-old or a lawyer might say "least untruthful" but an adult using plain English would say "lying."

        Actual Democrats: the surest, quickest, route to More Democrats. And actually addressing our various emergencies.

        by Jim P on Wed Aug 14, 2013 at 06:49:32 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You at least have to (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Jim P

          admire the sheer chutzpa of 'secret' interpretations here. The actual defined tasking of the NSA (Crone Wit cited above) is all about FOREIGN intelligence, just as the FISA court is all about FOREIGN intelligence.

          So what they've done is 'secretly' determine that the provisions of the laws that confine the activities and jurisdictions to be FOREIGN intelligence also means DOMESTIC intelligence. Clear as mud, see?


      •  Why did Clapper lie? (7+ / 0-)

        I'd say it was a heady mixture of incompetence & hubris.
        Clapper knew ahead of time that the question would be asked,he was also given the opportunity to walk his LIE  back. Instead,Clapper decided to shift and re-work his apology over several days (Clapper's final explanation being it was the least untruthful thing he could say), believing that he is too big to fail/jail. Maybe his is, he is still DNI.

        "George RR Martin is not your bitch" ~~ Neil Gaiman

        by tardis10 on Wed Aug 14, 2013 at 06:52:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  You're right! Snowden did say that officials lied (6+ / 0-)

      to Congress and the American people, in the first video.  And then the published NSA documents provided evidence of those lies.

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