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View Diary: Unbelievable:Spoon in underwear saving youths from forced marriage (155 comments)

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  •  Several problems with your riposte (19+ / 0-)

    1. India is not Muslim-dominated—it's not even close.
    2. Forced marriage is not allowed under Islam. The bride and the bride's family must consent.
    3. Many of the practices that are condemned in these countries are regional in origin, and are not anywhere close to Muslim tradition.

    •  OK, is there ANY other link? (0+ / 0-)

      Maybe too many redhaired green eyed people in these countries?

      Happy just to be alive

      by exlrrp on Fri Aug 16, 2013 at 05:32:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Patriarchal religions (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BlackSheep1

        Religions which deny equality to women, religions which regard women as less than human.

        And, keep in mind that Europe has generated its own variety of this sort of religion by certain cults denying the priesthood and leadership roles to women.

      •  Parts of Turkey (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BlackSheep1

        Around Ankara, where the Galatian kingdom used to be, people who look somewhat Celtic are not unheard of.  I met a young couple several years ago, an American man and the bride he brought back from Turkey.  Before they introduced themselves, I would have sworn she was from Ireland.  Since the Gauls (the mainland Celts) once invaded Rome, then were chased away, and founded Galatia in the middle of Asia Minor, about 300 BCE, a modern half-European or half-American person would not be noticed there.

      •  Hmm, they all happen to be of common ethnicity (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        BlackSheep1

        So perhaps they shared a cultural tradition in their pre-Islamic history that hasn't been eliminated, the same way some of the pre-colonization traditions of Latin America have survived the introduction of Catholicism?

        For example, the practice of "Sati" (immolation of widows) predates Islam in Indian culture. Is it Islam's fault that the practice still exists, even though it bans it? Or is it the fault of the practitioners clinging to local traditions?

    •  True: (5+ / 0-)

      Tribal, cultural, "traditional" marriages.....and it's been done in Christian nations too.

      Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

      by Sirenus on Fri Aug 16, 2013 at 06:52:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sirenus: see the USA, where (0+ / 0-)

        the FLDS or the regular Mormon churches are dominant.

        LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

        by BlackSheep1 on Fri Aug 16, 2013 at 12:24:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Did I not say that it's been done in Christian (0+ / 0-)

          nations? That includes nations where the majority of people are Christian, which certainly includes the US.

          Freedom has two enemies: Those who want to control everyone around them...and those who feel no need to control themselves.

          by Sirenus on Fri Aug 16, 2013 at 06:07:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  The bride must consent? (0+ / 0-)

      And did Ayesha, according to the Hadith, 'consent' to marry Muhammed when she was six years old (and he was 53)?  If the bride has to consent today, why are so many girls using this spoon-in-the-underpants trick to escape forced marriages?

    •  Not entirely (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BlackSheep1

      1. India is not Muslim dominated but has a substantial Muslim minority (whose grandparents apparently did not feel threatened enough to head northeast or northwest in 1947), and in fact has the ABSOLUTE largest Muslim population in the world (10 percent of 400 million, if those are the actual numbers, is still 40 million).
         (1a) Some more traditional Hindu and Sikh families in India still have forced marriage.  In more liberal ones, marriages are arranged, but the bride can opt out, even though the resulting ostracism would be comparable to Rand Paul's son becoming a Democrat.

      2. Several things are "officially" prohibited by the Koran (as by Jewish and Christian scriptures, such as taking away the homes of the people who lived in "your" country before you, and lending money at interest), but are done anyway because it was the pre-Muslim "tradition" to do them.  For example, persecuting Jews and Christians, and waging terrorist wars against non-Muslim countries who are not invading yours, are prohibited by the Koran, but are certainly done by SOME Muslims.

      3. My point in (2) above; things that were being done in now-Muslim cultures before Mohammed were toned down or "officially" forbidden (such as ONLY four wives), but the prohibition is widely ignored.  In a less harmful vein, early Muslim Persia produced beautiful art that shows us how they dressed, and did not entirely forbid alcohol (Omar Khayyam: a loaf of bread, a jug of wine, and thou beside me in the wilderness).

      The ingenuity of these young ladies (or their older girl friends, perhaps) is commendable.  Next someone will invent a tampon with a transponder that broadcasts "I am asking for political asylum" when pinged!

      •  What was done before Islam and "allowed" (0+ / 0-)

        By locals is not permitted by Islam. That the locals let the custom continue is not the same thing as saying that the religion allows it.

        (Also, your data on Muslim populations is off. The largest population is believed to be in Indonesia, not India. And while 13.5% of India is Muslim—and that's nearly as many as an Indonesia—it's not so many that the culture is "Muslim-dominated.")

      •  400 million? (0+ / 0-)

        Where are you getting your numbers from?  Last I'd heard, India has well over a billion people - and 10% of 1 billion is 100 million.  That's a lot of Muslims - total worldwide population of Muslims is 1.2 billion or so, which puts Islam in close competition with Christianity for sheer number of adherents.

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