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View Diary: KY-Sen: DeMint goes after McConnell (93 comments)

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  •  They really are. The Rs are hitting a wall and (16+ / 0-)

    a civil war.  About fucking time.  

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    by TomP on Fri Aug 16, 2013 at 10:24:12 AM PDT

    [ Parent ]

    •  My question is this: (6+ / 0-)

      Say you're a conservative mastermind (just go with me, here). Your goal is to weaken the government, because the government is the enemy: the 'scariest words in the English language,' and all that.

      Are you better off with a smaller, completely unified and utterly extremist caucus? Or with a larger one that is less nuts? Clearly there's a line somewhere, beyond which you're too few in number to even obstruct properly.

      But if I were a conservative mastermind, I wouldn't care about getting a majority in the Senate, where a majority is not required for obstruction. The House is different, but I'd prefer completely unified House of fanatical obstructionists over a large caucus with a bigger tent right to the point where my minority got completely steamrolled every time.

      So how few members must a moment of pure political nihilism have to be effective?

      "Gussie, a glutton for punishment, stared at himself in the mirror."

      by GussieFN on Fri Aug 16, 2013 at 10:35:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Koch Brothers maybe, but (12+ / 0-)

        many of the 1% of the 1% want a fucntioning government, just one they can influence and realtively low taxes.  I think the civil war really is between Wall Street/big business Rs (who want to use government for their own needs -- think the 1st Bush -- and the Birchers and tea partiers.   The latter are screwing up the game for the former.  But the former will compromise with Dems on certain things.  

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        by TomP on Fri Aug 16, 2013 at 10:42:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, I'm not sure that (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sue B, TomP, JeffW, CrissieP

          a government completely in bed with the .001% is all that functional! But I'm talking more about movement conservatives of the garden variety type: Birchers and tea partiers. So if I'm a Bircher, I want to get as many of the Koch-heads out as possible, as long as that doesn't undermine me completely. (And even if it does, in some way I might prefer an utter lack of influence and the ability to howl at the government, than having to actually have a stake in things, in terms of building my movement.)

          My point is mostly that the two parties function very differently. We might need 'more and better' to pass affirmatively good policies. They don't need that, because their goal is different.

          "Gussie, a glutton for punishment, stared at himself in the mirror."

          by GussieFN on Fri Aug 16, 2013 at 10:53:16 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Good point. True with the DeMint crowd. (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            GussieFN, JeffW, Aunt Pat, Gemina13

            There is also the long con part of conservative politics.  Fleece the rubes forever by battles with the RINOs in which the extremist fund raises.    

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            by TomP on Fri Aug 16, 2013 at 11:28:53 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I am confused. Aren't the Koch's the Birchers? (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            GussieFN, HappyinNM, Aunt Pat

            I thought their Daddy was one of the original Birchers.

            I could understand your statement if the goal for the Birchers to drive as many corporatists out as possible, like the Rmoneys, the T Boone Pickens, the fellow who runs Cancer Centers of America, because they might deal, and leave the Kochs, the Adelsons, the Huckabees (the Mammon worshippers), the Wayne LaPierre Gun Nuts and the Forced Birthers to try and pull Amurikkka down to their cesspool level.

            Even then, there are so many virulent strains and they interbreed for greed and profit so it's hard to know the scorecard and teams.  I mean, Palin wants so badly to be a corporatist because that's where the money is, but she's at heart just a small-time grifter and the real money knows not to trust her.  I can't begin to figure out Bachmann.

          •  They define "functional" (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Aunt Pat

            differently from the real world.

            For them, a government is like a private secretary - it jumps when you holler for it, and keeps the appearances proper enough that the rubes think things are getting done.

            I am not religious, and did NOT say I enjoyed sects.

            by trumpeter on Fri Aug 16, 2013 at 01:59:41 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  The Koch Bros own DeMint (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Gemina13, Yosef 52

          They hired him away from the Senate w/the sole purpose of using him to threaten all elected officials w/being challenged w/a primary if they don't carry water for the Koch's.

          As Charles Koch said when asked what did he want "I want it all".

          These are sociopaths.

          "I freed a thousand slaves, I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves" Harriet Tubman

          by BrianParker14 on Fri Aug 16, 2013 at 07:14:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  41. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GussieFN

        Unless/until the filibuster is dealt with, 41 Republicans can stall anything.  It's dangerous to go right up to the line, as you could lose a Republican in a blue state and have the governor appoint a Democratic replacement to give Republicans just 40.  Still 40 would require all the Democrats and both Independents to support measures, which isn't certain considering the unity issues the Democrats have with some of their members.  Still, I wouldn't want to count on Democrats not twisting arms enough to come up with 60 votes on issue after issue, especially Executive branch appointments, treaties and judges that don't go to the House.

        However, as far as legislation goes, if the House is still Republican, there could be fewer Republican Senators  because Senate legislation goes to the House and dies, plus the House is where all budget legislation is supposed to start.  With the House run by the Republicans, you could have 14 Republican Senators and still manage to get nothing done, other than purely Senate responsibilities, as mentioned above.

      •  It only takes a few (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Yosef 52

        committed psychopaths to destroy a democracy.

        "I freed a thousand slaves, I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves" Harriet Tubman

        by BrianParker14 on Fri Aug 16, 2013 at 07:06:41 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

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