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View Diary: "Hate Speech" is Not the Same as "Free Speech" (188 comments)

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  •  right. we progressives are against (3+ / 0-)

    the corporate prison system.. and in order to protest it we're going to put more non-violent offenders who said mean things in prison...

    •  I believe you are again making stuff up. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Chrislove

      And you are also being intellectually dishonest.

      "Mean" things???

      You have nothing further to say on this matter if all you are going to do is deliberately trivialize that which seeks to harm others.

      I hope that the quality of debate will improve,
      but I fear we will remain Democrats.

      Who is twigg?

      by twigg on Sun Aug 18, 2013 at 03:21:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You make it sound so benign (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      twigg

      These "non-violent offenders" who "say mean things" have real blood on their hands. Again, this is not an abstract problem. People die every day as a result of the environment that the hate speech we allow reinforces.

      I don't mind if you're straight. Just don't flaunt it in public.

      by Chrislove on Sun Aug 18, 2013 at 03:22:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  i see suicide as always the fault (0+ / 0-)

        Of those who commit it. A bully can lead you to that line.. Only you can cross it

      •  tell me (0+ / 0-)

        If we're. Blaiming 'the environment' that hate speech reinforces... Do we also ban other things that reinforce the environment like gendered clothing? That only serves to reinforce straight cis normativeness and is hurtful to trans

        •  Oh please (0+ / 0-)

          Are you really comparing gendered clothing to hate speech? Are you really, seriously comparing skirts and Levi's to spreading the message that gay people are sick and worthy of death?

          This is just getting ridiculous.

          I don't mind if you're straight. Just don't flaunt it in public.

          by Chrislove on Sun Aug 18, 2013 at 04:22:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  people kill themselves generally for two reasons (0+ / 0-)

            either they are in extreme physical pain..

            or nothing about their environment validates their identity.
            when most people are straight.. and even most of the gays are at least cis.. I'm pretty sure a trans or intersexed person wouldn't feel at all validated by their environment and are much more likely to kill themselves. Bullying and hate speech are only the loudest most noticeable parts of "the environment" you speak of.  

            and so long as you are going to blame the bullies for suicides.. are you also going to blame bullies for when the bullied kids break the other way and go on a homicidal rampage? are you going to say that they had it coming?

            •  I reject your idea that (0+ / 0-)

              because we can't completely legislate away a heterosexist, transphobic society, we can't at least tackle the very real issue of the hate propaganda that is spread on a daily basis. I reject that idea, and so do other Western countries.

              At this point, we're just going to have to disagree, because I am not having a conversation about homicidal rampages.

              I don't mind if you're straight. Just don't flaunt it in public.

              by Chrislove on Sun Aug 18, 2013 at 05:00:29 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  why not (0+ / 0-)

                a bullied kid can either

                A) do nothing, deal with it and become stoic
                B) act violently(up to suicide) towards themselves
                C) act violently(up to murder) towards their tormenters

                If you're going to blame B on the bully why shouldn't you blame C on them too? is it too uncomfortable for you to blame a murder victim of his own death?

                •  Again, I'm not having this conversation (0+ / 0-)

                  I understand that you keep wanting to veer into new topics, but I'm not going to.

                  I don't mind if you're straight. Just don't flaunt it in public.

                  by Chrislove on Sun Aug 18, 2013 at 05:06:24 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  you opened the door by saying the bullies (0+ / 0-)

                    are responsible for suicide which is, by the definition of suicide, is false and now you don't want to talk about the giant holes in your logic.

                    •  No, I said that making blanket statements (0+ / 0-)

                      about suicide being the fault of bullied teens is callous and simplistic. And it is.

                      I don't mind if you're straight. Just don't flaunt it in public.

                      by Chrislove on Sun Aug 18, 2013 at 05:11:43 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  yes, you did (0+ / 0-)
                        These "non-violent offenders" who "say mean things" have real blood on their hands. Again, this is not an abstract problem. People die every day as a result of the environment that the hate speech we allow reinforces.
                        you blamed bullies for deaths.
                        •  Oh, FFS. I was talking more about (0+ / 0-)

                          people like Bryan Fischer in that comment.

                          But yes, for the record, I blame bullies and Bryan Fischer and Tony Perkins and fundamentalist preachers for deaths. Absolutely. I am also capable of realizing that there are many other factors involved, but yes, haters have blood on their hands. I stand by that.

                          With that, I really am done with you. There is absolutely nothing productive about pushing this conversation farther and farther to the right of the screen. You can continue to pose questions, but you will not see another reply from me. Have a good evening.

                          I don't mind if you're straight. Just don't flaunt it in public.

                          by Chrislove on Sun Aug 18, 2013 at 05:22:10 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

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