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View Diary: open letter to dude feminists (58 comments)

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  •  Um (10+ / 0-)

    I think this sounds more hostile than was intended. And will be a source of innumerable pies.

    Just saying this as a Jedi level Feminist.

    •  I dunno... (13+ / 0-)

      I think a lot of people think of truth as being inherently hostile. Seems to me they ought to sit with that a while and think why it might feel that way to them.

      Truth just is. Truth that isn't sugar coated and massaged and made inoffensive, truth that's just smacked down on the table without apology--yeah, that can seem a little scary, especially if you don't see that too often. Truth is scary, a lot of the time. But it's truth. Lies are soft and comforting and will fuck you up bigtime. Truth is harsh, but it's the harshness of the scalpel that cuts away the cancer that's killing the body. I know what I choose. Oddly enough, I'm considered to be hostile and aggressive by a lot of people. Me, I just think I'm pretty truthful.

      And some of those statements are spot on. If I had a nickel for every time a dude wanted some sort of backpattin' attaboy for anything vaguely feminist-ish he did or said--well, I just hope nobody drops those nickels on my head all at once because I like being alive. Just sayin'.

      "Nothing's wrong, son, look at the news!" -- Firesign Theater

      by SmartAleq on Fri Aug 16, 2013 at 03:17:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No kidding (7+ / 0-)

      I got through like 7 of them and said to myself, "Well, my best bet is to just shut up and move on to something else!"

      Political compass: -8.75 / -4.72

      by Mark Mywurtz on Fri Aug 16, 2013 at 03:18:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Splashes of cold water... (7+ / 0-)

      ...often come across as hostile.

      But they're necessary.

      ‎"Masculinity is not something given to you, but something you gain. And you gain it by winning small battles with honor." - Norman Mailer
      My Blog
      My wife's woodblock prints

      by maxomai on Fri Aug 16, 2013 at 03:35:59 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Pretty much (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GAS, johnny wurster, kyril

      I found the tone hostile, though I understand where it's coming from. What's objectionable about it is the insistence that men must basically act as penitents for their gender. I don't find that offensive; it's just self-discrediting hypocrisy.

      I don't consider myself a feminist. I've never liked the term, though I do understand what it actually means, as opposed to the dittohead strawman. I'm an egalitarian. I strive through word and action to erase bigotry, including my own unconscious prejudices, of which I have eliminated many and undoubtedly have a lot more to eliminate. I don't need a pat on the back.

      But that's also the point about not shutting up. No one deserves a pat on the back for being egalitarian precisely because it's the least you can do and be a decent person. People need to hear that, and sexist men, in particular, need to hear it from other men.

      If individual feminists are nonplussed by that, that's fine. The struggle for a fair and equitable society isn't about them. It's about everyone, and everyone has a positive responsibility to do their best to achieve that goal. Telling people to shut up isn't going to get us there. We need to talk to each other. That will unavoidably involve annoying and not infrequently misunderstanding and offending each other, just like any other extended family, but talk we must.

      As for people who want a pat on the back, consider that they are at least joining the conversation. They may be joining it in a narcissistic and self-involved way, but consider that when someone is after your attention, they are at least potentially likely to listen to your response. If we are wise, we will craft that response with a view to the effect we would like to achieve.

      And the bright side of the downward thermodynamic spiral is, um...

      by eodell on Fri Aug 16, 2013 at 03:56:01 PM PDT

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      •  "I found the tone hostile... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        ... I don't consider myself a feminist...."

        These two statement may be connected.

        And where does it say that men must act like penitents?  Being told to use your power responsibly, and not to expect pats on the back for doing what any decent human being should do is hardly demanding penitence.

        Then again, losing privilege always feels like losing rights.  Even when it's not.

        "If you fake the funk, your nose will grow." -- Bootsy Collins

        by hepshiba on Sat Aug 17, 2013 at 04:01:32 PM PDT

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    •  It does sound harsh, but I think any woman (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SmartAleq, sexgenderbody

      should be allowed to be as harsh as she desires given that the war on women is alive and well.

      I do agree that a more diplomatic tone would be great, but I wouldn't demand it from the diarist any more than I would demand it from a Black person that is harsh because of racism or an LGBT person that has been mistreated just because of their sexuality.  I think that until we erase a whole lot more of the discrimination that still exists (against women, Blacks, LGBT, immigrants, etc.) - it is better than it used to be, but nowhere near where it needs to be - any of those affected by discrimination have a right to be as harsh as they want to be.

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